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by runamok
on Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:55 am |
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libertarian99 wrote: Common sense tells you that you are taking enough precautions if the baby is not breathing in any wisps of secondhand smoke. The baby can't possibly suffer any adverse health effects if they are not actually breathing in any potentially dangerous chemicals.
You STILL haven't been de-programmed.
Or is this some subtle sarcasm that I didn't pick up on? |
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runamok

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by libertarian99
on Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:29 am |
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runamok wrote: libertarian99 wrote: Common sense tells you that you are taking enough precautions if the baby is not breathing in any wisps of secondhand smoke. The baby can't possibly suffer any adverse health effects if they are not actually breathing in any potentially dangerous chemicals.
You STILL haven't been de-programmed.
Or is this some subtle sarcasm that I didn't pick up on? No, I understand that it is probably harmless even if the baby does catch a whiff of smoke. But I also know that mothers are programmed to worry obsessively about their babies. Have you ever experienced being the mother of an infant?
Due to the fact that this mother is going to worry obsessively about her baby's safety no matter what, I was just pointing out that if the baby doesn't inhale any wisps of smoke, there is no possible way the baby is being harmed, so she is being as safe as she can possibly be.
Scaring women about their babies is about the most powerful tool the antis can use. It is so powerful that it's part of the reason I never had children. After all the antismoking mind-bashing, I was convinced I was a bad, evil person who would just damage any infant unfortunate enough to end up in my womb, so I did them all a favor by preventing that situation from ever happening.
I'm sure that's too much personal information, but I just wanted to illustrate how powerful this kind of shaming is. |
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libertarian99

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by shaddupalready
on Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:18 pm |
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Seano wrote: My eldest child Erin was still-born on 24th of October 1990, and my wife had stopped the occasional Benson & Hedges Sterling Ultra-Lights as soon as the DIY bathroom litmus test came up red.
I woke up at sunrise the morning of the 23rd to find her not sleeping beside me, and in my surprise, grabbed a set of trackie daks and raced out to see her there in the back yard, stretching the arms, shoulders and most importantly, the womb that her newborn daughter was trapped for upcoming parole in 90 days or so, and I grabbed a bbq stool as I ran to the clothesline.
Unfortunately for Erin, the doc had an important golf tournament at Joondalup that morning, although we waited at the hospital all day until they told me to leave and go home if I'd leave my number. I got the knock on the door from the sympathetic uniformed grave-yard shift police constables at around 2:30am the next morning, and enjoyed a couple of minutes under matron's careful eyes to hold my frozen daughter's corpse in my arms and say farewell for the next 9 years. She came to me one night in 1999, but she's been busy since then.
Hanging the laundry (my job) on the line at dawn at the beginning of the third trimester is dangerous for child of the non-smoking mother-to-be, among other hearts.
I have no idea what this guy was talking about. Apparently his wife quit smoking as soon as she found out she was pregnant, and then his daughter was still-born. That's all I got.
Anyway, I am just getting SO pissed off about this anti-smoking movement. If I have a cigarette on my front porch with my baby in his stroller a few feet away, cars passing by will actually SLOW DOWN so they can get a good look at me and pass adequate judgement. When I was pregnant, and I smoked even after I started to show, the looks I got from people were incredible.
No one actually goes and does the research themselves -- they just listen to whatever other people have to say and then parrot it. Even my son's pediatrician yells at me for not changing my clothes after every time I have a cigarette. It's absolutely ridiculous.
By the way, I'm new to this forum. This was sort of my introduction post. I haven't done a whole lot of research on what is going on, I just know that it's getting harder and harder every single day for me to enjoy a cigarette, and I hate it. |
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shaddupalready

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by garhkal
on Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:07 pm |
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Quote: My mother smoked around me all the time, and I turned out just fine. (Granted, I'm a smoker now... but you get the picture.) She didn't smoke in the house, but she smoked in the car. It was never a big deal. But now all of a sudden I'm hearing that I'm supposed to do everything short of taking a shower and washing my hair after every cigarette because I have a baby? Isn't it enough that I don't smoke around him?
I have several friends that DO smoke around their children in the house and car. I will probably never do that, mainly because I'll be promptly burned at the stake if I do so. Do you have children? What are your smoking habits around them? Do you actually change your clothes before you hold your little ones? Am I going about this horribly wrong?
You have fallen for the nonsmokers rhetoric that anyone who smokes around kids is as bad a parent as one who abuses them. In my growing up, almost every kid i knew had at least one parent who smoked. It seemed to ME that the 3 bigger terrors were ones who did not do any disciplining, not those who smoked. HECK the ones who had both parents smoke seemed to not only turn out right, but are some of the better kids from my age...
Quote: Congratulations! You are well on your way to being successfully and totally indoctrinated by anti-tobacco's propaganda and emotional blackmail.
Very true. THIS is why i won't be that way if and when i get my own kids.
Quote: I totally sympathize, because I feel myself starting to panic if my 92-year-old mother comes anywhere near me while I am smoking. If she comes out on the porch while I'm smoking, I immediately tell her to go back inside. If we're both outside, I keep stepping back and she has to chase me around the yard to finish the conversation. This woman has survived all kinds of adversity for 92 years, but I'm terrified she will catch a wisp of my smoke and keel over dead on the spot.
You seem to have also been indoctrinated.. There is no need to panic, let alone fear for your mother. SHE has lived a full life.
[quoteI think it's all getting worse because people have gone to such great lengths to make sure their infants and toddlers are never exposed to smoke. By the time they reach adulthood, their noses are hypersensitive to it. It used to be a fairly common smell, but now it's so rare in public, it's become a huge issue if someone detects tobacco smoke at all. [/quote]
I think it is the same with germs. When we were kids, we got into every darn thing, and most have been healthy as ever. The kids these days seem to be protected against everythin under the sun, which to me is NOT doing them any good as it reduces the bodies normal way of building up antibodies. |
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garhkal

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by libertarian99
on Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:42 pm |
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garhkal wrote: I think it is the same with germs. When we were kids, we got into every darn thing, and most have been healthy as ever. The kids these days seem to be protected against everythin under the sun, which to me is NOT doing them any good as it reduces the bodies normal way of building up antibodies. A couple of years ago I read some news stories saying that children who grew up in too-clean houses developed more allergies in later life. Apparently children's immune systems needs to be exposed to germs in order to develop the way they are supposed to.
Here's a link to one of those stories in case you missed all that:
http://www.livescience.com/health/070914_too_clean.html
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libertarian99

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by libertarian99
on Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:50 pm |
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shaddupalready wrote: Anyway, I am just getting SO pissed off about this anti-smoking movement. If I have a cigarette on my front porch with my baby in his stroller a few feet away, cars passing by will actually SLOW DOWN so they can get a good look at me and pass adequate judgement. When I was pregnant, and I smoked even after I started to show, the looks I got from people were incredible. Isn't it weird how strangers suddenly become interested in you in that situation? I've heard all kinds of vitriol aimed at pregnant women and I can't fathom why anyone thinks it's their business. There's something outrageous about strangers thinking they need to step in and protect a baby that belongs to you, not them. |
Last edited by libertarian99 on Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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libertarian99

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by shaddupalready
on Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:35 pm |
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libertarian99 wrote: Isn't it weird how strangers suddenly become interested in you in that situation? I've heard all kinds of vitriol aimed at pregnant women and I can't fathom why anyone thinks it's their business. There's something outrageous about strangers thinking they need to step in and protect a baby that belongs to you, not them.
I'm taking Child Growth and Development this semester, and smoking during pregnancy is an issue that is brought up in the class almost every day. I'm trying to keep my mouth shut, but sometimes it's difficult. I haven't revealed that I was one of those women, because the shit that I would receive from the rest of the class would be horrendous.
One of my classmates the other day told us all about her pregnant neighbor who smokes. She was wondering if she should say something. The professor proceeded to tell her all about the harmful effects of smoking, and said that she SHOULD talk to her. I spoke up then, saying that the poor woman didn't need anyone to be her mother, that she doesn't live under a rock so she already is well aware of what this society thinks she should and shouldn't do, and that if she went up to an 8- or 9-month pregnant woman and started lecturing her about smoking that she would get a lashing like she wouldn't believe. And frankly, I told her, it's not her business. Stay out of it.
Oh, I got some dirty looks that day, believe me. |
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shaddupalready

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by smallbird
on Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:11 pm |
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libertarian99 wrote: Common sense tells you that you are taking enough precautions if the baby is not breathing in any wisps of secondhand smoke. The baby can't possibly suffer any adverse health effects if they are not actually breathing in any potentially dangerous chemicals.
That said, it's pretty much normal for smokers to suffer from continued fear, worry and shame, even when the people around them can't possibly be suffering damage from their cigarette smoke. The whole point of the antismoking movement has been to inflict as much psychological damage on smokers as possible, in the hopes that you will quit to avoid further mental torture.
I totally sympathize, because I feel myself starting to panic if my 92-year-old mother comes anywhere near me while I am smoking. If she comes out on the porch while I'm smoking, I immediately tell her to go back inside. If we're both outside, I keep stepping back and she has to chase me around the yard to finish the conversation. This woman has survived all kinds of adversity for 92 years, but I'm terrified she will catch a wisp of my smoke and keel over dead on the spot.
My Dad died when he was 80. He was a smoker for 72 years. My Mom is a non-smoker. She lived with my Dad (the chain-smoker) for 56 years. When my Dad passed away, my sister helped my Mom clean out all the nasty smelling stuff from her house (that she had shared with my Dad all that time). My Mom is now 84. No sign of lung or heart problems. When it's really cold outside she tells me I can smoke in her house (I love this woman). Most of the time I smoke outside, but I'm sure my Mom can stand up for herself, and so can your mother Libertarian. |
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smallbird

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by smallbird
on Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:20 pm |
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shaddupalready wrote: libertarian99 wrote: Isn't it weird how strangers suddenly become interested in you in that situation? I've heard all kinds of vitriol aimed at pregnant women and I can't fathom why anyone thinks it's their business. There's something outrageous about strangers thinking they need to step in and protect a baby that belongs to you, not them.
I'm taking Child Growth and Development this semester, and smoking during pregnancy is an issue that is brought up in the class almost every day. I'm trying to keep my mouth shut, but sometimes it's difficult. I haven't revealed that I was one of those women, because the shit that I would receive from the rest of the class would be horrendous.
One of my classmates the other day told us all about her pregnant neighbor who smokes. She was wondering if she should say something. The professor proceeded to tell her all about the harmful effects of smoking, and said that she SHOULD talk to her. I spoke up then, saying that the poor woman didn't need anyone to be her mother, that she doesn't live under a rock so she already is well aware of what this society thinks she should and shouldn't do, and that if she went up to an 8- or 9-month pregnant woman and started lecturing her about smoking that she would get a lashing like she wouldn't believe. And frankly, I told her, it's not her business. Stay out of it.
Oh, I got some dirty looks that day, believe me.
Good for you Shad! A big thumbs up!  |
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smallbird

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by Smoker Sympathizer
on Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:56 am |
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I think there are far too many laws already, but if I could outlaw one thing, it would be busybodying. I would treat this crime as severely as murder, because in essence, that's what a busybody does. He or she (most of the time it's a she; I'm a woman and can say that , attempts to kill an individual's right to self determination and superimpose a "proper" lifestyle. The cause might start out nobly enough but the end is always the same: tyranny. The most effective way to tyranize someone is to make them internalize the prison, which is where the anti-smokers have been so effective. They use people's kind natures against them. I don't have kids myself, but I was one once. My grandfather was a heavy smoker and I got my fair dose of SHS. I turned out quite well. I knew that the world didn't revolve around me and I'm the better for it. |
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Smoker Sympathizer

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