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by Seano on Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:24 am
The closest place to Perth I've found for fairly-priced cigarettes was one of the Changi Airport duty-free stores, Singapore in late 2006. Under $20.00 AUD for a 200 carton.

Thailand had just raised the retail price of Marlboro 20s from 60 baht to 75 baht in one fell swoop, but luckily there was a military coup in mid September and prices were restored back to the pre-takeover equivalent of $2.00 AUD a few days later for top quality imported tobacco, better than these local copies that they fob off on the small contingent of Australians who have the vision to see the danger to public freedoms of many different kinds in the guise of these inexcusable fiscal tricks caused by the sort of propaganda that makes me dream of one day returning to a civilised country like Australia once was, a long time ago.
Seano Puffer
Puffer Joined: Oct 17, 2009 Posts: 44 Location: Australia
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by libertarian99 on Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:36 am
Seano wrote:
Thailand had just raised the retail price of Marlboro 20s from 60 baht to 75 baht in one fell swoop, but luckily there was a military coup in mid September and prices were restored back to the pre-takeover equivalent of $2.00 AUD a few days later for top quality imported tobacco, better than these local copies that they fob off on the small contingent of Australians who have the vision to see the danger to public freedoms of many different kinds in the guise of these inexcusable fiscal tricks caused by the sort of propaganda that makes me dream of one day returning to a civilised country like Australia once was, a long time ago.
A military coup caused a drop in cigarette prices? How? Maybe we can stage one here in the US with toy guns. By now, we smokers have been demonized to the point where people would be scared of us and would fear for their lives even if we carried brightly colored squirt guns. Let's take advantage of it!
libertarian99 Enthusiastic Smoker
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by Seano on Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:53 am
libertarian99 wrote:
A military coup caused a drop in cigarette prices? How? Maybe we can stage one here in the US with toy guns.


It was a peaceful coup that night - not a shot fired. Nicest one I ever turned up to anyway.

All I can guess as a reason was that once the political lobbyists that had inflicted their apartheid plans on the Thaksin government no longer had any government left to lobby, the thoughtful retailers knew well enough how to embrace capitalism with the style that only Bangkok can.

The lobbyists have probably adjusted their aim and targetted whatever parties are in government now, (as well as tomorrow if they have learned anything from the last mistake), but it's a fairly good indicator that tobacco tax is no friend of the cashier at the 711 store, nor his or her boss.

It's merely the politics if disillusioned control freaks, but it's costing me 40% of my weekly income here in Australia now.
Seano Puffer
Puffer Joined: Oct 17, 2009 Posts: 44 Location: Australia
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by libertarian99 on Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:01 am
Seano wrote:
It's merely the politics if disillusioned control freaks, but it's costing me 40% of my weekly income here in Australia now.
What's the situation like in Australia, tobacco-wise? I think we're behind the curve here in the US. We just got FDA control and they're planning the gruesome cigarette packs in a few years. I've read that things are worse in other countries, including Australia.

So what's it like? Have there been any good rebellions aimed at stopping the insanity?


Last edited by libertarian99 on Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:24 am; edited 2 times in total
libertarian99 Enthusiastic Smoker
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by Seano on Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:21 am
libertarian99 wrote:
What's the situation like in Australia, tobacco-wise? I think we're behind the curve here in the US. We just got FDA control and they're planning the gruesome cigarette packs in a few years. I've read that things are worse in other countries, including Australia.

So what's it like? Have there been any good rebellions aimed at stopping the insanity?


Libertarian, may I first thank you for engaging in a dialogue that provides evidence of intelligent life somewhere out there in cyberspace, and hence for a very kind welcome to this forum, which I have searched for a few times over recent months but only struck the jackpot today. I knew that you people were out there ... somewhere, and finally I looked under the right streetlight and found the key.

In the standard Aussie way, the most explicit rebellion over these past 20 years as the mixed-up media 'tycoons in the making' gradually increased the taxation to this stupendous 400-500%, as been the practical and peaceful adjustment to RYO tobacco, and that was about it.

I copped a rather memorable bite from a mosquito the same day I got off the plane from Changi to Perth with those last 200 duty-free marlboro, and the Ross River Virus has taken my respiratory fitness to the extent that asthma is a very serious risk now, and that forces me to stay with the one tailormade brand I've always stuck to, to give my body a fair chance.

Now in the media, we get more tripe around once a week on how the 'community' would prefer the price of a packet of ciggies to rise to $20.00. Total manufactured propaganda.

The traditional outdoors Western Australian Royal Agricultural Show went cigarette free this year for the first ever time, and I lay in bed listening to the sound of the 'fireworks' each night of that show.

What the Australian media tell the public is always the truth!

A friend in Vancouver told me recently that Canada had implemented high tobacco tax years ago, and dropped it because it didn't work.
Seano Puffer
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by libertarian99 on Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:35 am
Seano wrote:
I copped a rather memorable bite from a mosquito the same day I got off the plane from Changi to Perth with those last 200 duty-free marlboro, and the Ross River Virus has taken my respiratory fitness to the extent that asthma is a very serious risk now, and that forces me to stay with the one tailormade brand I've always stuck to, to give my body a fair chance.
What is the Ross River Virus? I never heard of that. Are you in the service? We have some service members who post here regularly.

Seano wrote:
A friend in Vancouver told me recently that Canada had implemented high tobacco tax years ago, and dropped it because it didn't work.
We were just having a discussion about Canada on another thread, in case you didn't see it. Might want to check it out: Totallly Confusing Ontario Smoking Ban in Trucks. It's in the Smoking Bans section.
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by Seano on Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:59 am
libertarian99 wrote:
What is the Ross River Virus? I never heard of that. Are you in the service? We have some service members who post here regularly.

Ross River Virus (RRV) comes from Australian mosquitoes, as well as a few other places in the world, (NOT Thailand nor Singapore) and will give you a bad case of the 'flu for between 1 and 5 years. I'm just starting my 4th year since the 11th of this month.

The main impediment for me, is that I have always kept very physically fit to beat asthma, and smoking has not caused any harm, although I've been careful; including when adjusting to rollies ten years ago; to stay with the same brand as much as possible to let the body learn how to function with a familiar sort of 'poison', just like I tend to go with the same brand of coffee so that my guts know how to deal with it.

Any physical exercise I have tried since I got RRV has felt great for the first two or three days, and then something that seems a special feature of RRV, it hits like a bungee-jumping piano the next day. Turning into a couch potato over these past three years has given me good reason to play it safe and 'stick to the devil I know' for the durries (ciggies).

libertarian99 wrote:

We were just having a discussion about Canada on another thread, in case you didn't see it. Might want to check it out: Totallly Confusing Ontario Smoking Ban in Trucks. It's in the Smoking Bans section.


Thank you for the reference. I read about as far as the part where it mentioned 'smoking in the workplace'. No doubt about it now, is there? This is war, and it has been too one-sided for too long.

One thing I forgot to mention about the radio news story I mentioned above, was that as well as the 'community' the PR expert who was reported in the story also included the good logic that because most of the cigarette smokers in Western Australia apparently 'want to quit' she has proven conclusively that we would very much like to have to pay $20.00 per packet.

That is the sort of propaganda that has become acceptible in Ontario as well now, from what that good-truckin' article tells me.
Seano Puffer
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by libertarian99 on Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:27 am
Seano wrote:
One thing I forgot to mention about the radio news story I mentioned above, was that as well as the 'community' the PR expert who was reported in the story also included the good logic that because most of the cigarette smokers in Western Australia apparently 'want to quit' she has proven conclusively that we would very much like to have to pay $20.00 per packet.

That is the sort of propaganda that has become acceptible in Ontario as well now, from what that good-truckin' article tells me.
Unfortunately, smokers have used the "I want to quit but can't" line a little too often in an effort to get well-intentioned nannies off their back. People will often stop nagging and leave you alone if you pretend that you can't quit, as long as you don't admit the reason you can't quit is because you don't want to.

There might be a few smokers who quit as a result of coercive government "help," but for people like myself it has the opposite effect. The harder people try to control me, the more determined I become to thwart their efforts. I don't think the tobacco control people understand that smokers tend to be rebellious sorts, and coercive rules only magnify that effect.

The fact that some smokers are willing to thank the government for robbing them just goes to show how effective the antismoking movement has been, as far as mental conditioning. It's really painful to watch smokers not only cooperate with, but encourage their own oppression.
libertarian99 Enthusiastic Smoker
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by Seano on Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:56 am
libertarian99 wrote:
Unfortunately, smokers have used the "I want to quit but can't" line a little too often in an effort to get well-intentioned nannies off their back. People will often stop nagging and leave you alone if you pretend that you can't quit, as long as you don't admit the reason you can't quit is because you don't want to.

There might be a few smokers who quit as a result of coercive government "help," but for people like myself it has the opposite effect. The harder people try to control me, the more determined I become to thwart their efforts. I don't think the tobacco control people understand that smokers tend to be rebellious sorts, and coercive rules only magnify that effect.

The fact that some smokers are willing to thank the government for robbing them just goes to show how effective the antismoking movement has been, as far as mental conditioning. It's really painful to watch smokers not only cooperate with, but encourage their own oppression.


I do believe that there has been one single good thing I have been lucky to achieve today. I have made a friend. Your words rang so true. I say "The more they tax me, the harder I will tax them." I do not know of any other way to fight injustice.

I can relate very much to the 'rebellion' you refer to, for in some ways I'd have to agree that I would probably have looked for another way to overcome the hayfever and quietly and plannedly stopped the practice of firebreathing somewhere over these past few years, as I am almost 42 now. However, it is the injustice of that tax which gives me the most reason to 'rebel' if that's the correct word, but also because I have always loved my country and the people in it (apart from the academics anyway) and see how this trend is now spreading across the world to foreign nations such as the USA and Thailand, where there live other people that I care for in the same way as the good Australians that I am not capable of turning the apathetic cheek and letting go of their freedoms.
Primarily this is because I have seen the new trend to repeat the same mistake with fast-food to stop the hospital fees for fat people. As if skinny people like me (once) never go to McDonalds!

This is not about tobacco at all. This is about government-run apartheid.


---o0o---

PS: It's just past my bedtime now on Saturday night in Perth Au, but I should clarify a little on my ranting with regards this 'rebellious' attitude that is inherent in both of us, and maybe a fair quota of cigarette exponents, but to my mind, found more in honest people than scumbags, whether they decide to smoke or not.

I might change my mind one day, whether it be willfully or due to some unavoidable misfortune, but as far as I see now, there is only one possible mechanism apart from death that will ever convince me to even consider the idea of living without tobacco as a part of my daily life, and that is the tobacco tax.

If they drop the tax down to something like petrol/gasoline (which causes far more pollution, road deaths and hospital time than the durries) from the 500% or more that we're paying, then I could go back to the original plan and would probably have far more interesting things to take up my time with all the extra money I've parted with for cig-tax than sit here on the Internet all day smoking.

Have you ever met someone and asked them as you offered them a light, "Why did you start smoking?" and they replied "Well, y'see the Marlboro man came down on his horse one day and pointed his six-shooter at me and handed me a tailor' and told me that if I didn't smoke it there and then he was gonna steal all my money." ?

That's the flipside of the anti-tobacco control freaks.
They started it. They have the numbers to finish it.
I have my conscience and a pillow to rest my head on tonight, no matter which way it ends up.

Sweet dreams and see you and the forum tomorrow. THanks for the discussion. It is a rare gift to talk to a friend today.
Seano Puffer
Puffer Joined: Oct 17, 2009 Posts: 44 Location: Australia
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by libertarian99 on Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:52 am
Seano wrote:
I might change my mind one day, whether it be willfully or due to some unavoidable misfortune, but as far as I see now, there is only one possible mechanism apart from death that will ever convince me to even consider the idea of living without tobacco as a part of my daily life, and that is the tobacco tax.

If they drop the tax down to something like petrol/gasoline (which causes far more pollution, road deaths and hospital time than the durries) from the 500% or more that we're paying, then I could go back to the original plan and would probably have far more interesting things to take up my time with all the extra money I've parted with for cig-tax than sit here on the Internet all day smoking.
The tobacco wars remind me of the movie "Point Break." There's one scene where Patrick Swayze and Keanu Reeves both jump out of an airplane and end up locked together in free fall, each one daring the other to give in to fear and open the parachute. It's a battle of the wills that no one wants to lose.

I personally spent most of my free time this summer learning to grow my own tobacco, a very labor-intensive process. The more time and energy people invest in making me quit, the more time and energy I spend trying to prove they can't control me.

More time and energy is probably spent on this battle than people would ever gain if everyone simultaneously quit smoking and added a few years to their life. It would make more sense for both sides to go back to their respective corners and just leave each other alone, but neither side wants to lose so that's not about to happen.
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