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by libertarian99
on Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:55 pm |
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Pete Gatti wrote: libertarian99 wrote: Wait! Don't chase Crackerjack away just yet. I am fascinated by people who somehow identify with their persecutors and participate in the denigration of their own group. I never can figure out why people go along with ideologies even when it is not in their personal best interest to do so.
Because the instinct to protect our children will take precedence over any group. Anti knows pushing the "it's for the children" button gets results when all else fails. It's a very powerful emotional instinct where even reason is pushed aside. Crackerjack is the norm not the exception.
So like Runamok said, Crackerjack might as well go ahead and quit smoking now before the assault starts. |
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libertarian99
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by Smoker Sympathizer
on Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:43 pm |
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libertarian99 wrote: Pete Gatti wrote: libertarian99 wrote: Wait! Don't chase Crackerjack away just yet. I am fascinated by people who somehow identify with their persecutors and participate in the denigration of their own group. I never can figure out why people go along with ideologies even when it is not in their personal best interest to do so.
Because the instinct to protect our children will take precedence over any group. Anti knows pushing the "it's for the children" button gets results when all else fails. It's a very powerful emotional instinct where even reason is pushed aside. Crackerjack is the norm not the exception. Sure, people want to protect their children. But at some point, the children are going to become the aggressors and Crackerjack will be on the defensive. You can bet the antis' brainwashing is pervasive at whatever school Crackerjack's kids attend, or will attend if they are not in school yet. Having rules at home about not smoking in the children's presence isn't going to cut it, once the children hear their parent being referred to as a child abuser.
So like Runamok said, Crackerjack might as well go ahead and quit smoking now before the assault starts.
Homeschooling seems to be looking better every day and I don't even have kids! Why are people getting away with this crap? Why are normal citizens being criminalized when the justice system is running scared of real criminals for fear of "violating their rights?" |
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by Smoker Sympathizer
on Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:51 pm |
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jsidney wrote: The eradication of all joy from the world. The sick freaks who are controlling our governments with their "Cult of Healthism" are trying to do just that.
"Outing The Antis" http://frank-davis.livejournal.com/18427.html
...it has always seemed perfectly apparent to me that the war on smoking is above all a moral crusade. The fundamental objection of antismokers is that it is a vice, a perverse instinct, a species of self-abuse.
...Those puritanical sorts of people who disapprove of smoking usually also disapprove of drinking, of drugs in general, of gambling, and above all of sex. Or at least of every kind of sexual behavior other than that which is needed to produce a new generation...
"The Damned And The Saved" http://frank-davis.livejournal.com/24669.html
...the cathedral has become a gymnasium, its pews replaced by exercise bicycles, its sacraments exchanged for spring water and vitamin pills...In place of the cult of the immortal soul, there is the cult of the immortal body.
"The Global War On Freedom" http://frank-davis.livejournal.com/22499.html
...if the prohibitionists win, we can look forward to a world that is not just opium-free and cannabis-free, but also tobacco-free and alcohol-free. And for good measure it will also be chocolate-free, and coffee-free, and meat-free, and salt-free. Oh, and movie-free, and book-free ... and above all sin-free.
For this is a religious war, driven by all the irrationality of a corrupt and depraved religion. And it is, above all, a war on freedom....
And how long will we put up with it all? Most people think of themselves as too smart to fall for tyranny and scorn their ancestors who do just that. I think that what they fail to realize is tyranny never announces itself. It always uses our hearts and minds to make us think we're working for the greater good. The road to hell is painted with words "for the betterment of mankind." I just don't understand the menatilty that equates good food, good wine and intellectual engagement as sin. Aren't we supposed to be made up of both a physical and a spiritual part? |
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by garhkal
on Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:24 pm |
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Smoker Sympathizer wrote:
Homeschooling seems to be looking better every day and I don't even have kids! Why are people getting away with this crap? Why are normal citizens being criminalized when the justice system is running scared of real criminals for fear of "violating their rights?"
Cause we are worse than criminals to them. |
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by crackerjack
on Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:56 pm |
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Smoker Sympathizer wrote: libertarian99 wrote: Pete Gatti wrote: libertarian99 wrote: Wait! Don't chase Crackerjack away just yet. I am fascinated by people who somehow identify with their persecutors and participate in the denigration of their own group. I never can figure out why people go along with ideologies even when it is not in their personal best interest to do so.
Because the instinct to protect our children will take precedence over any group. Anti knows pushing the "it's for the children" button gets results when all else fails. It's a very powerful emotional instinct where even reason is pushed aside. Crackerjack is the norm not the exception. Sure, people want to protect their children. But at some point, the children are going to become the aggressors and Crackerjack will be on the defensive. You can bet the antis' brainwashing is pervasive at whatever school Crackerjack's kids attend, or will attend if they are not in school yet. Having rules at home about not smoking in the children's presence isn't going to cut it, once the children hear their parent being referred to as a child abuser.
So like Runamok said, Crackerjack might as well go ahead and quit smoking now before the assault starts.
Homeschooling seems to be looking better every day and I don't even have kids! Why are people getting away with this crap? Why are normal citizens being criminalized when the justice system is running scared of real criminals for fear of "violating their rights?"
You can't fight every fight just to say you are fighting. As long as you guys refuse to see the other teams point of veiw you will never be able to figure out what fights you may or may not win.
For as long as you insist on smoking where ever the hell you want to and insist on subjecting anybody you wish to your smoking habit people will resist you and as they are in the majority you will loose. For as long as you insist smoking is not bad for you and for as long as you insist that SHS is not bad for you you will never be taken seriously.
Runamonk is blowing smoke up his own ass because it makes him feel good but he will never be taken seriously by any opponent in this debate. I'd go so far as tho say he is the Sarah Palin of the smoking debate. Many listen and cheer but no common sense is tabled in what he offers.
Please...run me off but do so with logic not gobbledygook or as someone said about Sarah "A hurricane of words" |
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crackerjack
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by Smoker Sympathizer
on Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:49 pm |
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crackerjack wrote: Smoker Sympathizer wrote: libertarian99 wrote: Pete Gatti wrote: libertarian99 wrote: Wait! Don't chase Crackerjack away just yet. I am fascinated by people who somehow identify with their persecutors and participate in the denigration of their own group. I never can figure out why people go along with ideologies even when it is not in their personal best interest to do so.
Because the instinct to protect our children will take precedence over any group. Anti knows pushing the "it's for the children" button gets results when all else fails. It's a very powerful emotional instinct where even reason is pushed aside. Crackerjack is the norm not the exception. Sure, people want to protect their children. But at some point, the children are going to become the aggressors and Crackerjack will be on the defensive. You can bet the antis' brainwashing is pervasive at whatever school Crackerjack's kids attend, or will attend if they are not in school yet. Having rules at home about not smoking in the children's presence isn't going to cut it, once the children hear their parent being referred to as a child abuser.
So like Runamok said, Crackerjack might as well go ahead and quit smoking now before the assault starts.
Homeschooling seems to be looking better every day and I don't even have kids! Why are people getting away with this crap? Why are normal citizens being criminalized when the justice system is running scared of real criminals for fear of "violating their rights?"
You can't fight every fight just to say you are fighting. As long as you guys refuse to see the other teams point of veiw you will never be able to figure out what fights you may or may not win.
For as long as you insist on smoking where ever the hell you want to and insist on subjecting anybody you wish to your smoking habit people will resist you and as they are in the majority you will loose. For as long as you insist smoking is not bad for you and for as long as you insist that SHS is not bad for you you will never be taken seriously.
Runamonk is blowing smoke up his own ass because it makes him feel good but he will never be taken seriously by any opponent in this debate. I'd go so far as tho say he is the Sarah Palin of the smoking debate. Many listen and cheer but no common sense is tabled in what he offers.
Please...run me off but do so with logic not gobbledygook or as someone said about Sarah "A hurricane of words"
Since you quoted one of my comments, I feel at liberty to point out a flaw in your argument, crackerjack. I don't smoke. I'm not a smoker, ex-smoker or anything like that. I am a non-smoker who is beyond disgusted with "my team" as you call it and their bullying tactics. Their point of view consists of nothing but trying to force people who don't agree with them into increasingly bizarre and frightening marginalizing. I for one refuse to defend it, stand for it or tolerate it. I am probably more radical than most smokers in that I believe people should be able to smoke where they chose. I might make a rare rare exception, but it would be the exception not the rule. Most smokers go out of their way trying to please these anti-smoking people who will not only not appreciate them, but continue to actively try to legislate them out of their lifestyle. I believe that the whole second hand smoke debaucle is the result of problem creation rather than problem resolution. People were fine with smokers when it was the norm, but through years of systematic denormalization, it's become trendy to persecute them. So people do. Yes, I believe it's that simple. People like to pride themselves on being unique and against the herd, but when it comes down to it, herd mentality prevails. Why else have groups of people done the indefensible, under the defense of "everyone else was doing it"? My final point is actually a serious question, one to which I've given much thought: if all this lifestyle legislation is supposed to lead us to a better world, where is it? Are we more free than we were when smoking was the norm? Are we happier? Are we better people? Or is the world in much much worse shape? Those are just some things to think about. It's certainly your right to dismiss my ideas, just as much as it my right to disseminate them. At the end of the day, I don't expect to change anyone's mind, and they won't change mine, but discussion is a step in the right direction. |
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by activist0000
on Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:25 pm |
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crackerjack wrote: You can't fight every fight just to say you are fighting. As long as you guys refuse to see the other teams point of veiw you will never be able to figure out what fights you may or may not win.
For as long as you insist on smoking where ever the hell you want to and insist on subjecting anybody you wish to your smoking habit people will resist you and as they are in the majority you will loose. For as long as you insist smoking is not bad for you and for as long as you insist that SHS is not bad for you you will never be taken seriously.
Most people here aren't all that concerned about reasonable indoor smoking bans, except in bars. I may be mistaken, but I haven't personally read too many posts here recently where smokers complain about not being able to smoke in offices, elevators, theaters, or most other places where smoking is commonly banned.
People do resent not being allowed to smoke in bars, though, and they resent not being able to open a place of business where they can make their own rules about smoking. For example, it shouldn't be illegal for someone to open a bar specifically for people who want to drink beer and smoke at the same time. People are free to stay away, if they don't want to be exposed to SHS.
Most of the smokers here couldn't care less about exposing non-smokers to SHS. We just want to be left alone to open and patronize our own smoking-allowed businesses, where non-smokers don't have to go if they don't want to.
crackerjack wrote: Runamonk is blowing smoke up his own ass because it makes him feel good but he will never be taken seriously by any opponent in this debate. I'd go so far as tho say he is the Sarah Palin of the smoking debate. Many listen and cheer but no common sense is tabled in what he offers. |
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activist0000
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by garhkal
on Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:38 pm |
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Quote: People do resent not being allowed to smoke in bars, though, and they resent not being able to open a place of business where they can make their own rules about smoking. For example, it shouldn't be illegal for someone to open a bar specifically for people who want to drink beer and smoke at the same time. People are free to stay away, if they don't want to be exposed to SHS.
Well said activst. |
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by gilster
on Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:57 pm |
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This whole debate used to be about private business property rights
~we've moved beyond that - in most localities~
(Private business owners have no rights as to what they will or will not allow in their establishments - whether it's a bar, restaurant, business office-workshop etc.)
It's moving on to a debate on private home property rights.
~We are starting to move beyond that now; Belmont, CA, etc. - condo and apartment bans - property bans at businesses where you can't smoke in your private car on company property.
It is dabbling 'quickly' into private body bans
~You smoke? Can't work here~
~You smoke? You are fired~
~You smoke? You can't adopt children~
~You smoke? You Can't - You can't - You can't....
SHS dangers is a farce - read some studies - don't read the spin.
All smoke can be an irritant to people, it can make your eyes water and can make you cough. Some people can't tolerate it, very few, others have been conditioned to believe they can't tolerate it.
This is how these draconian laws and regulations are created, slowly and methodically.
Laws like this are performed like a swimmer who eases into the cold ocean. First the toes - get up to the ankles (hey this isn't that bad) up to the knees - OK, getting to the waist - alright, dive the rest of the way in -
You are now All Wet. |
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gilster
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by libertarian99
on Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:44 pm |
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gilster wrote: Laws like this are performed like a swimmer who eases into the cold ocean. First the toes - get up to the ankles (hey this isn't that bad) up to the knees - OK, getting to the waist - alright, dive the rest of the way in -
You are now All Wet. |
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libertarian99
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