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by crackerjack
on Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:42 pm |
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The wife just called 3 people at her work are now going to be stuffing their own smokes and 2 have decided to give it up. I sent some free samples along and hey presto we have thee more converts.
So lets see in my friend/ people group I know 21 people who will not be providing Florida and the Feds with their much needed tax on cigarettes
So that is 2.38 x 365 x21 = 18242.70 Dollars that they will fall short from just the small group that surrounds me and I'm working on gaining at least 12 more individuals in the next few days.
Florida alone stands to loose 10577.70 just from my small but growing group in the next 12 months.
Tomorrow during my lunch break I'm off to talk to a local tobacco store to see if I can convince them to sell pipe cut tobacco, tubes and injectors.
You never know they might actually ban internet sales after all.
I have two Aces. I know the State of Florida is holding nothing and it's down to the River |
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crackerjack
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by runamok
on Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:25 pm |
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crackerjack wrote: If your State is anything like mine and increased the state cigarette tax to help balance the budget they have put themselves in a predicament because the cost of cigarettes is causing more people to simply give it up or to change what they smoke to something they can afford like pipe cut tobacco.
The states (and maybe the feds) are going to catch on to the "pipe" tobacco shenanigan sooner rather than later and they will begin taxing the shit out of it too.
A scant few may actually be quitting but not nearly as many as anti-smoking instructs the press to print. Various stories I have read over the past year estimate that approximately 20% of the cigarettes purchased and smoked in the U.S. are off the radar. Black market, gray market, offshore internet sites, whatever. (In Canada it is estimated to be at least 40%.) Any stats on quitting they use that are based on legal cigarette sales statistics are way off base.
Most states in the U.S. are at or near the tipping point where increased tobacco taxes will result in reduced revenues....but not because people will quit. Canada has already gone way over the top and are at their wits end up there trying to figure out what to do. The black market there is so prolific that the policing it would require to truly crack down on it would cost many times more than any additional revenue they would collect. Back in the late 80's and early 90's they had the same problem which was quickly solved by repealing most of the tobacco taxes that caused the problem in the first place. That strategy is now way too politically incorrect to be deployed so....they spin in circles while the provinces and their federal gov't lose billions per year to black market sales. Rather comical I must say.
As has been pointed out earlier, anti-smoking and the gov'ts thirst for tobacco tax revenue are on a collision course and, sooner or later, it's going to have to come to a head. I can tell you who's going to win that battle. |
Last edited by runamok on Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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runamok
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by garhkal
on Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:31 pm |
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Quote: The OP is wrong is she thinks the smoking ban and increase of taxes will not stop people from smoking. With smokes costing 6.25 a pack the sales of cigarettes here in Florida have plummeted with some chain stores and smaller stores that sell cigarettes reporting a loss of 30% in sales.
They are more than likely going out of state to buy them. I know here in MS, they are 4 or so a pack, and even less in AL..
Quote: The states (and maybe the feds) are going to catch on to the "pipe" tobacco shenanigan sooner rather than later and they will begin taxing the shit out of it too.
I have already heard rumors that MS is looking to put another .50 on a bag of pipe tobacco, 4-8 oz. 1 dollar on bigger ones... |
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garhkal
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by gilster
on Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:55 pm |
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runamok wrote:
The states (and maybe the feds) are going to catch on to the "pipe" tobacco shenanigan sooner rather than later and they will begin taxing the shit out of it too.
Absolutely true - Texas already is doing it!
I get a kick out of people who think secret, hidden gems of tobacco nirvana at low-low prices will never be found out and taxed to shit.....
Cracker, get your head out of the barrel.
You've recently found a loophole that a very few know about - it won't last long.....
(I'll be buying that stuff soon too when my RYO runs low, so don't think we are all in awe of your secret special epiphany) |
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gilster
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by flex
on Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:11 pm |
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Quote: Pete Gatti
You've been back into a corner smoking pipe tobacco and you accept it as a generous provision, like they really had your best interests at heart. You need to wake up cause as long as anti has those billion$ to play with, your pipe tobacco tube stuffing days are numbered.
lol;
An oversight probably due to a tiny percent of smokers using the product will not going to be difficult to "correct".
Quote: gilster wrote:
Liberty is Liberty, if the owner of a bar or restaurant wants to have smoking or not - it should be up to the owner.
McDonald is the first comes to my mind going smoke free before the bans.
There were also other restaurants mostly known locally also been smoke free prior.
(for example St Hubert B.B.Q, which had 4 or 5 restaurants here and another 5 smaller restaurants I can recall from the top of my head)
The writing was on the wall and the slow evolution for more smoke free restaurants was happening.
After all; was there any law preventing a restaurant from going smoke free?
Was there any law prohibiting anyone opening a restaurant and declare it to be smoke free?
Was any owner ever was prevent it from or prohibited from placing a NO SMOKING SIGN on the entrance door and inside of the restaurant?
Did MacDonald or any other restaurant been sued for not allowing smoking in their restaurant?
Some suggesting today that the more smokers demand the right to be allowed to operate a restaurant where smoking permitted by the owner or some area of it, the more nonsmokers will push for more smoking bans.
B/S.
That is where the money created anti smoking/smoker lobby propaganda kicks in, parroted by an occasionally implanted agents posing as smokers and/or a few smokers who is unable to comprehend that owners of restaurants rarely have a desire to chase away the overwhelming majority of people with money to spend.
My nonsmoking g/f for example have no problem at all going to one which allows smoking but for her and I suspect for most other nonsmokers who do not really care about the issue much it is not something to spend a lot of time on.
THERE MUST BE A SURE FIRE GOLDMINE TO OPERATE A NONSMOKING RESTAURANT, SO WHY IS THE BANS NEED IT?
No smoker I am aware of demanding to take away the rights of smokers or nonsmokers to operate a restaurant where smoking is not allowed.
That often quoted MAJORITY is nonsmokers to be sure. The anti smoking/smoker groups loves to pretend them to be all anti smoking and/or anti smoker.
(one of the many lessons spoon fed to those professional employees my previous post referred to is to bring up the Majority issue and the 80% numbers.)
Of course; a previous post from someone else did say some of the same things;
Quote: uote]I'd like to know where it is that non-smokers have a gun put to their head and are forced into establishm[qents where tobacco is quite obviously being used. Even before bans were enforced there were many smoke-free options by owner choice, particularly restaurants. Interesting to note that the bans also ruined many of these owner choice, smoke-free venues because they lost their niche. The market was in the process of adapting to those that preferred a smoke-free environment when gov't came in and started driving in thumb tacks with their sledge hammer. [/quot
Runamok;
Quote: I think what you're trying to say here ( Confused ) is that smoking bans are justified because some don't care for the odor. Well, that is not the premise that these bans are based on. They have been implemented based on the entirely unproven theory that SHS causes physical harm to others. Apparently you feel that the end justifies the means. That says a lot.
lol;
I really, truly, honestly hate the smell of curry.
Are You saying that it is not necessarily a health risk?
Can a few hundred million dollars invested with some groups possibly change many peoples opinion?
How about multiplying that figure a few times and create an industry to oppose it?
Add a yearly income of a few millions and an attractive tax shelter for some charities and foundations.
...............................................................................................................................
Well; lol, It would take a lot of money............................................................
flex |
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flex
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by libertarian99
on Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:43 pm |
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crackerjack wrote: So it's my understanding that nobody here believes that smoking is bad for you. Funny stuff right there. I'm sure there is a forum full of people who are still debating if the earth is flat or round too.
I've been wondering how you could fail to notice that the antismoking movement is about way more than smoking bans in restaurants. Some people are just excellent at shutting out unpleasant facts, such as the fact that even though you have rules surrounding your smoking that you think make your habit acceptable, the antis don't think highly of you and they're not going to leave you alone.
We are not the oblivious ones... |
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libertarian99
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by activist0000
on Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:28 pm |
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flex wrote: Quote: Perhaps the only thing I could add to that crystal clear post by "activist0000" is the fact about the monitoring of pro smoking and pro choice sites and forums by some anti smoking/smoker groups and individuals.
The monitoring often supplemented by individuals postings from anti smoking/smoker groups sometimes playing the role of a smoker sending the "accept Your assigned guilt, shame, sickness, degradation, unfair treatment, and .............." signal, like many other smokers do.
The reason I made that stament previously because a close nonsmoking friend is employed by one of those professional anti smoking/smoker organization. Good money in it(much more than previous income) so blends in well even though have a totally oppose t personal view than of some of the zealots and/or professional anti tobacco advocates there. This person also have a distant relative employed by an other well known organization. Much the same situation.
To make a long story short, it is a source of a lot of inside info about policies, tactics and so called dirty methods.
More than a few full time employees been employed by various groups to spread messages to media boards, discussion forums, chat rooms, pro smoking and/or pro choice sites, journalists, politicians ..................... and so on. Some of those have a great deal of knowledge about tobacco and often "upgraded" on developments. A brief mandatory school class type of setting "education" about tobacco is a first step in order to get the job.
At some organizations, it is a well honed, well oiled, well organized and well run department. Some have international links and several different IP address involved.
Also well paid. Some have loose connection to the p/r area and personnel's, some not.
Most of us aware about p/r departments but that is not the full story.
To be honest, considering the amounts of money involved, it is not so strange.
Hearing it from the horses mouth however removed any lingering doubts I once had
A lot of antis support employment discrimination against smokers, so why not give them a dose of their own medicine?
Antis make our lives hell. It's too bad we don't have people on our side who collect fat paychecks and have all the time in the world to show the antis, on a personal level, what it's like to be hounded without mercy by strangers. |
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activist0000
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by powerpuff
on Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:13 am |
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I agree with you alliwag34. Everything is a matter of choice. The anti campaigns are just government reminders of the hazards certain activities bring in to people. But it is still the individuals choice on how they will react to these bans. Although there are bans like these, there are always ways if there are wills.  |
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powerpuff
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by crackerjack
on Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:31 pm |
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gilster wrote: runamok wrote:
The states (and maybe the feds) are going to catch on to the "pipe" tobacco shenanigan sooner rather than later and they will begin taxing the shit out of it too.
Absolutely true - Texas already is doing it!
I get a kick out of people who think secret, hidden gems of tobacco nirvana at low-low prices will never be found out and taxed to shit.....
Cracker, get your head out of the barrel.
You've recently found a loophole that a very few know about - it won't last long.....
(I'll be buying that stuff soon too when my RYO runs low, so don't think we are all in awe of your secret special epiphany)
Believe me my head is not in the barrel. You might find it amusing to poke fun at me. I'm working towards finding a solutions to a problem while it would seam some here are happy to sit on the sideline and just complain.
Somebody once said that you are not entitled to a right if you are not willing to fight for it.
Complaining and whining does not constitute fighting for your rights.
The problem we have today is that anti smoking is very organized while smokers are not so it's only natural that smokers will loose. We have an opportunity to work towards changing just how much they win by.
Can we win and lift the smoking ban? I'm afraid not.
Can we limit the way the smoke ban is enforced hell yes.
To make a new law is simple but enforcing it takes money and support for it.
A simple example. In my county there is a law on the books that makes it illegal to park a commercial vehicle in a residential area. The law had never been enforced but one day my city took it upon themselves to ticket every vehicle that even looked like it could be used for commercial use. Trucks Vans and even some station wagons fell prey and soon a lot of businesses and individuals who drove what the city defined as a commercial vehicle got mad at constantly having their cars fined. letters were sent some people even took out ad space to bring light to their grievance and businesses threatened to move to adjacent cities or even counties.
The City leaders took note of this uprising and that their actions could cost them their jobs and suddenly the small increase in revenue they received from those fines was not so important to them anymore.
The law is still in place but they don't act on it now unless they receive a complaint and even then the vehicle has to display an advertisement and a phone number for the business to qualify as being used for commercial use and they give warnings rather than fines.
What makes this country so great is that it's by the people for the people. Piss the majority off and they will come after you, but if people sit around and do nothing nothing will be done.
Again I can't speak for all the states and this is just my opinion but here in Florida the State made a mistake by relying on a voluntary tax to meet the budget. They lied (as they do) they said they needed the tax increase on cigarettes to pay for health costs but that's not what they are using it for. I personally see a chance here to make them pay for their mistake.
If we prevent them from getting their cigarette tax they will have less power to enforce or make any new laws. yes they might increase the tax on pipe tobacco but we buy online so how is that going to help them yes they might ban internet sales but again we can go out of state to buy our tobacco needs in bulk so what's that going to get them?
Soon they will have to change their thinking. they will want to balance the ever increasing budget so they are going to have come after everybody for it including non smokers.
They don't want to do that because the majority of Florida will be PO'd at them for that.
Florida just expanded the local government by hiring people to track down those that buy their cigarettes online. I'm not sure what they call this new bureaucracy but they intend cigarette taxes to pay for it. I think that they will have a hard time justifying the cost of this new bureaucracy it they don't have the money to pay for it.
Florida's big plan is already falling apart (I'm sure it's the same in other States) there is no way they are going to raise 1 billion in cigarette taxes alone but to drive the steak deeper into the hart of the beast we are going to have to work together.
Anyway keep flaming me if that is what it takes to makes you happy. I'm saving money on my smokes and the ban does not affect me so I'm happy with my smoking habit.
I'm purely in it because I love my Country and my State and because I don't like them lying to me. |
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crackerjack
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by runamok
on Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:46 pm |
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crackerjack wrote: I'm saving money on my smokes and the ban does not affect me so I'm happy with my smoking habit.
I think this pretty much sums up your stance. Basically it says "Strip the freedoms of others based on lies and as long as it doesn't appear to affect me, I don't care."
You are complicit in anti-smoking's divide and conquer strategy. By not standing up for other's rights, even though it may not seem to affect you directly right now, you open yourself up to the next volley of arrows.
Well, when that next volley does come, I will stand up for your rights even if that volley is not directed at me. |
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runamok
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