Prohibition Does NOT Work!

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by Sherry614 on Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:10 pm

The anti-smoking, pro-seatbelt, anti-obesity, pro-helmet, anti-fast food, pro-"health" movement is nothing more than the 21st century version of prohibition. It didn't work in the 1930's and it won't work today!

"The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in the United States is closely connected with this."
~Albert Einstein

Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.
~Abraham Lincoln

Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.
~Ronald Reagan

Sherry614

Newbie Joined: Jun 11, 2006 Posts: 5 Location: Las Vegas

by crackerjack on Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:28 am

Sherry614 wrote:

Ronald Reagan? LOL
You should go read that Ronald Reagan quot to all the republicans who supported bush while he took the constitution to the shredder.
As for the smoking ban not working I'm afraid you are wrong it is working.

I find that I mostly smoke at home now. even on the weekends when we go somewhere I can't smoke because the kids are around me all the time or it's not allowed where I'm at. I don't smoke in my car period because I hate the smell it leaves behind in the air conditioning filters and I don't smoke in my workshop nor allow it because we deal with flammable materials and going outside to smoke is a PITA.

I'm a smoker and I'm a smoke Nazi. you come visit my house yuou smoke outside like I do. You work for me you smoke outside and only on your breaks or you get another job. I have non smokers that work for me and I value them so I don't subject them to anything they are not comfortable with and return they get the job done.

Ask my kids what they think about smoking and they will tell you it is a smelly dirty habit that nobody needs to have. I told them that and they know it to be true because I showed them what a filter looks like after the cigarette was smoked I let them smell I showed them the tar in my pipe and offered free taste tests of the tar (no takers yet) when I discus smoking with my kids I discuss it as a addiction and a bad habit, cigarettes are evil and I go all out on the horrors of smoking I leave nothing out.

to be honest I was not like this before I had kids. My kids changed me I would hate for my kids to have to spend 5 hours on a plane full of smokers so I applaud the no smoking rules we have on planes now. I would hate my kids to sit in a room full of smoke trying to eat their lunch so I applaud the non smoking rules we have in restaurants. my kids don't smoke and they should not have to put up with the stench from cigarettes or cigars. I on the other hand do smoke and it's a choice I make every day so being told where I can practice my dirty habit is fine by me.

Think about it. you were not born with a cigarette in your hand you chose to smoke.
A good analogy I use is masturbation. would you like to sit on a bus next to a guy masturbating?
Is it not prohibition to disallow people from masturbating in public? you dont see people becrying mastubators righs now do you? Know why?
Because it's silly.
I'm going to go outside and smoke my Two Timer Gold/ Penhooker/Turkish Drum that I mixed up last night.

crackerjack Toker

Toker Joined: Sep 08, 2009 Posts: 83

by alliwag34 on Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:06 am

In my humble opinion, people deserve the right to make choices on their own. If they want to die in an automobile accident, fine... don't buckle up! If you want to eat chips and drink soda.. your choice! If you want to take your chances w/your health... eat, drink and smoke!
I do see that there is a problem when one's rights encroach on another's enjoyment of theirs, but there has got to be a line drawn somewhere to prevent the government from banning everything that makes someone uncomfortable.
I do agree that on an airplane, there is no ventillation to speak of. Why don't we just ban anyone w/a cough or cold, crying children and the sniffles from boarding? You could do a mini physical right there at security (since you have to wait forever to get thru w/out your diet coke that might have 4 oz left in the bottle... max is 3oz.) anyway...
Then you can ban anyone who's feet stink when they take their shoes off for the security check. They'd save a ton of $ on fuel b/c they'd only have 3 people on the flight now, and those on standby could get where they need to go... as long as they don't have stinky feet, a cold or a crying child!
I think we've got the problem solved! LOL

Now.. on a more serious note... there are times and places for everything. God gave us free will, and the government takes it away. Let's be allowed to use our own common sense for a change! We have gone from freely smoking everywhere to being relegated to the non-smoking section ... to what? Not at all? Even in BARS? I think they just need to think about everything in broader terms. These same people that are all gung ho on bringing down the smokers and keeping them from even wanting to go out b/c they can't fully enjoy themselves are hurting businesses and the economy. These are also the very same people who will be whining and crying when the government bans children from restaurants after 6pm when adults want to have a peaceful meal w/out some kid standing on the seat behind them the whole time while the parents chuckle about how cute it is...
I seriously think it should be left up to the owner of each establishment as to whether they will ban smoking there, set up non-smoking isolation units or allow children only during certain hours.
Post a sign outside... Smokers, kids and stinky feet allowed! Let the whiners decide whether to go out on Friday night or not!
P.S. I do have a child. I am not against children.. just their stupid parents who don't raise them right.

alliwag34

Newbie Joined: Sep 09, 2009 Posts: 1 Location: NC

by activist0000 on Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:22 pm

crackerjack wrote:

Think about it. you were not born with a cigarette in your hand you chose to smoke. A good analogy I use is masturbation. would you like to sit on a bus next to a guy masturbating? Is it not prohibition to disallow people from masturbating in public? you dont see people becrying mastubators righs now do you? Know why? Because it's silly.

Well, how would you feel about a worldwide campaign to denormalize people who masturbate? If you don't know what denormalization is, check out these links:

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/5226/

http://fightantismokertyranny.blogspot.com/2009/07/smokers-health-anti-smoker-hate.html

How about a campaign to charge a 500% tax on sex toys so masturbators won't be able to afford them? How about TV commercials that denigrate people who masturbate? Would you object to employment discrimination against those who masturbate? How about pre-employment screening designed to weed out the masturbators?

Sorry, but I couldn't help getting a little carried away with this analogy.

activist0000 Toker

Toker Joined: May 26, 2009 Posts: 86

by flex on Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:14 pm

Quote:

I'm a smoker and I'm a smoke Nazi.

That is one crackedupjack
Only bothered to read the post till the quoted sentence.
Hope not a parent of the kids mentioned before this sentence for the sake of the kids.
I mean; anybody proudly calling himself/herself a nazi, any type of nazi........................................is all I need to know about the mentality of the person in question.

flex

flex

Puffer Joined: May 12, 2008 Posts: 50 Location: Canada

by crackerjack on Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:03 pm

activist0000 wrote:

crackerjack wrote:

You need a TV campaign to stop public masturbation? LOL
We have laws in place for that sort of thing.
Employment discrimination against those who masturbate at their work desks? I should hope so.

crackerjack Toker

Toker Joined: Sep 08, 2009 Posts: 83

by activist0000 on Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:47 pm

crackerjack wrote:

You need a TV campaign to stop public masturbation? LOL
We have laws in place for that sort of thing.
Employment discrimination against those who masturbate at their work desks? I should hope so.

The goal of the antismoking movement is not just to stop people from smoking around others. It's to make smokers feel ashamed of themselves for smoking at all, and for non-smokers to treat smokers badly just because they smoke. It's pervasive. It's not just limited to behavior that affects others.

The exorbitant taxation is meant to keep you from smoking anywhere. The goal of public service messages that degrade smokers is to make you feel bad about yourself all the time. You can't denormalize people on a limited basis.

The antismoking movement is not just about getting people to stop smoking in public. It's about convincing smokers they are trash every minute of every day.

activist0000 Toker

Toker Joined: May 26, 2009 Posts: 86

by flex on Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:18 pm

Quote:

activist0000

The goal of the antismoking movement is not just to stop people from smoking around others. It's to make smokers feel ashamed of themselves for smoking at all, and for non-smokers to treat smokers badly just because they smoke. It's pervasive. It's not just limited to behavior that affects others.

The exorbitant taxation is meant to keep you from smoking anywhere. The goal of public service messages that degrade smokers is to make you feel bad about yourself all the time. You can't denormalize people on a limited basis.

The antismoking movement is not just about getting people to stop smoking in public. It's about convincing smokers they are trash every minute of every day.

Exactly. Excellent post.
Been involved in this issue for a long time. Mostly in Canada, where the anti smoking and smoker movement "achieved" most of it's earlier "success" before "exporting" the methods, ways and formulas to implement bans and policies to other countries. In many ways Canada was and to a much smaller degrees today is still the "testing ground" to see how far the bans and policies can be pushed on the municipal, provincial (state) and national level and how to deal with "resistance".
It is striking to see the similarities of the "Health charities", :nonsmokers right associations, "grass root" anti tobacco groups, government health agencies and departments roles and actions between Canada and the US.
Yes, some much notable differences but mostly similar.
Much the same principals.

No, not a "newbie" to this game, which is the reason "activist0000" post sounds so chillingly true and accurate to me.
Perhaps the only thing I could add to that crystal clear post by "activist0000" is the fact about the monitoring of pro smoking and pro choice sites and forums by some anti smoking/smoker groups and individuals.
The monitoring often supplemented by individuals postings from anti smoking/smoker groups sometimes playing the role of a smoker sending the "accept Your assigned guilt, shame, sickness, degradation, unfair treatment, and .............." signal, like many other smokers do.

flex

flex

Puffer Joined: May 12, 2008 Posts: 50 Location: Canada

by runamok on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:10 am

crackerjack wrote:

A good analogy I use is masturbation. would you like to sit on a bus next to a guy masturbating?

People have always had a natural aversion to public masturbation...and public nose-picking and public butthole scratching (interesting to note that the last two are still legal).

The current "aversion" to the act of smoking is due to a carefully orchestrated plan of denormalization (mostly based on unproven theories of danger from SHS) that has been systematically and brilliantly thrust upon the public by a miniscule minority of scolds and nannies. These hacks and cranks were seen for what they are (hacks and cranks) until the MSA money drove up the stakes of the game. Not by millions of dollars. Not by hundreds of millions of dollars, but by hundreds of billions of dollars.

This kind of money gets people’s attention. There was little in the language of the MSA dictating where the states were to spend these newfound riches and state officials at the time piously promised that a large percentage of this loot would go toward paying for the alleged extraordinary expenses of treating smoking-related diseases and the funding of anti-smoking programs. Organizations whose names began with “Smoke Free” or “Breathe Free” sprang up overnight and began lobbying for a piece of the, now huge, pie.

Modern day "tobacco control" has spent untold millions producing studies specifically designed to corroborate the old beliefs and superstitions that were postulated back when Colombus first brought it to Europe. Finding a receptive press and a gullible public, they couldn’t resist upping the ante by creating hundreds, if not thousands, of new and horrible consequences of tobacco use.

The new "aversion" to tobacco use is due to a contrived, money driven sham that preys on weak-minded individuals, non-smokers and smokers alike.

runamok

Smoking Lobby Sponsor Joined: Dec 20, 2004 Posts: 1288

by smallbird on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:36 pm

Runamok! I like your style! Cool

smallbird

Enthusiastic Smoker Joined: Jan 03, 2007 Posts: 362

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