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by person on Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:13 am
sirchir2009 wrote:
American Spirit used to mention (as recently as two months ago) a fire safe cigarette paper utilizing starch (for the speedbumps). They no longer say that in the FSC faq on their website. Instead they now use the vague "special cigarette paper" referenced everywhere else. Of course they don't mention that you are smoking plastic along with your lovely organically grown tobacco. That's what's so special about it!

It really angers me that they (cigarette manufacturers and ignorant state legislators) would implement such a drastic change with no regard to the added potential toxicity of EVA, a chemical that, according to a Material Safety Data Sheet "Can release irritating and/or toxic fumes and vapors if involved in a fire." IF???....INVOLVED IN A FIRE ????


You seemed to have missed my first post where I emailed SFNTC, the makers of American Spirit cigarettes, where they stated,

person wrote:
"Santa Fe Natural Tobacco Company does not add any chemicals to our tobacco to comply with State fire safety laws. We simply use a new type of flax-based cigarette paper which has built-in “speed bumps.” Two speed bumps are placed in horizontal bands along the length of the cigarette. The burn retardant bands are virtually non-porous. As a result, not enough oxygen can diffuse through the bands to the burning tobacco in order to support the smoldering process. As the lit end burns across these bands, the supply of oxygen is restricted and the cigarette is more likely to self-extinguish.



The material used to create the speed bumps is a natural starch, made from a water based alginate that is an extract of seaweed. This alginate is food use approved, biodegradable and applied to the paper in a water solution. Our FSC cigarettes contain the same amount of tobacco that Natural American Spirit cigarettes always have, and we use only the same premium quality 100% additive-free natural tobacco our customers have come to know and expect."

On wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alginic_acid it says: Alginate absorbs water quickly, which makes it useful as an additive in dehydrated products such as slimming aids, and in the manufacture of paper and textiles. It is also used for waterproofing and fireproofing fabrics, as a gelling agent, for thickening drinks, ice cream and cosmetics, and as a detoxifier that can absorb poisonous metals from the blood.

So it appears that Alginic Acid would be good for making cigarettes "Fire-safe" and possibly detoxify smokers from poisonous metals in the blood????

So it sounds like Santa Fe Natural tobacco is not using EVA in their American Spirit manufactured cigarettes! What do you guys think?

Edit: After a little more investigation it appears that they are using this patented version of FSC cigarettes: http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090025742 and I don't see a mention of EVA or anything besides alginic acid, so I don't know, but this sounds relatively safe.


When I mentioned the fact that American Spirits use EVA as their cigarette glue, they answered that they have always used EVA as their cigarette glue, as I believe all cigarette manufacturers have always done, and most likely will always do.
person Newbie
Newbie Joined: Jul 18, 2009 Posts: 31
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by sirchir2009 on Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:16 pm
Person - I did see your post. My point is that it appears that American Spirit at some point changed their FSC manufacturing process from using natural starch-based "speed bump" bands to the EVA bands. Their web site no longer touts the flax-based paper and natural starch bands. They simply say they use a "special cigarette paper" which we now know thanks to your email exchange, contains EVA. I guess I have to give American Spirit some credit for fessing up.

This is the same way they got this legislation passed. No one apparently questioned the method of modifying the paper or the chemicals used in the process. Special cigarette paper sounds much better than cigarette paper coated with bands of carpet glue.
sirchir2009 Newbie
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by person on Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:12 pm
Quote:
Person - I did see your post. My point is that it appears that American Spirit at some point changed their FSC manufacturing process from using natural starch-based "speed bump" bands to the EVA bands. Their web site no longer touts the flax-based paper and natural starch bands. They simply say they use a "special cigarette paper" which we now know thanks to your email exchange, contains EVA. I guess I have to give American Spirit some credit for fessing up.

This is the same way they got this legislation passed. No one apparently questioned the method of modifying the paper or the chemicals used in the process. Special cigarette paper sounds much better than cigarette paper coated with bands of carpet glue.


NO man. You're completely wrong. SFNTC has always used EVA as the glue in their cigarettes, EVERY CIGARETTE MANUFACTURING COMPANY HAS ALWAYS, AND WILL ALWAYS USE EVA AS THE GLUE IN THEIR CIGARETTES. This does not mean that that is what they use for their speed bumps. What they use in their speed bumps is alginic acid, which is exactly what they say it is.
person Newbie
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by 003 on Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:07 pm
sirchir2009 wrote:
Person - I did see your post. My point is that it appears that American Spirit at some point changed their FSC manufacturing process from using natural starch-based "speed bump" bands to the EVA bands. Their web site no longer touts the flax-based paper and natural starch bands. They simply say they use a "special cigarette paper" which we now know thanks to your email exchange, contains EVA. I guess I have to give American Spirit some credit for fessing up.

This is the same way they got this legislation passed. No one apparently questioned the method of modifying the paper or the chemicals used in the process. Special cigarette paper sounds much better than cigarette paper coated with bands of carpet glue.
No, they don't use EVA in the bands. They use Alginate (Alginic Acid?) for the speed bumps, but the glue used to hold the cigarette paper together is EVA, and always has been. Still not good but this does at least mean the staining I noticed is not from the EVA.

I just with cigarettes could be made with unbleached paper tubes (no glue involved) and none of this FSC garbage.
003 Newbie
Newbie Joined: Jul 16, 2009 Posts: 17
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by person on Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:15 pm
Quote:
I just with cigarettes could be made with unbleached paper tubes (no glue involved) and none of this FSC garbage.


That would be awesome, Raw Rolling Papers should make tubes.
person Newbie
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by Slearwig on Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:23 pm
Why use paper? I want tubes made from 100% pure sweet light Virginia cigarette tobacco leaf, no stems, no seeds.
Slearwig Enthusiastic Smoker
Enthusiastic Smoker Joined: Mar 28, 2009 Posts: 213
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by person on Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:48 pm
Quote:
Why use paper? I want tubes made from 100% pure sweet light Virginia cigarette tobacco leaf, no stems, no seeds.


Now that would be amazing. Why hasn't anybody made this?
person Newbie
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by person on Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:07 pm
Another update on EVA. In studies online it does say that inhaled EVA causes nasal, throat and lung irritation, and may be carcinogenic. However, us smokers are not inhaling EVA, we are inhaling it's combustion byproducts. From the searching I have done for research I've found a couple articles on this, but I'd have to pay for them to read the entire thing so the details are sketchy, also I don't know much about reading studies, but from what I think I understood, the byproducts are just CO2 and CO. Those are bad, but they most likely do not add any harm to cigarettes because EVA as the side-seam glue is less than .9% of a cigarette. So in the end, it would definitely be a little safer to smoke hand rolled cigarettes in RAW rolling papers, or as Slearwig suggested, rolled in tobacco without glue, but you won't be doing yourself much extra harm, smoking manufactured cigarettes. Just smoke in moderation.
person Newbie
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by Slearwig on Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:55 pm
You know, I thought that the original non-filter Nat Shermans were rolled in a paper made of tobacco, but maybe it wasn't tobacco. From memory I remember the tube on tearing looked like it might have paper blended into it. I would want mine with a filter and I would like to try a filter cut from sweet corn cob and that maybe uses sweet corn silk instead of artificial fibers for the filter plug.

I called Rouseco the makers of Golden Harvest RYO and asked them about making or selling tobacco tubes made of sweet Virginia tobacco and the spokesperson said that that would be a legal hassle because of the tobacco laws and tax laws, or rather, the anti-tobacco laws.
Of course they have tubes made from tobacco for their little cigars, but that's cigar tobacco and differs from what a tube of sweet light Virginia tobacco would taste like.

This is their website:
http://www.rousecoinc.com/
Slearwig Enthusiastic Smoker
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by infinitethoughts on Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:03 pm
Slearwig wrote:
Why use paper? I want tubes made from 100% pure sweet light Virginia cigarette tobacco leaf, no stems, no seeds.
Absolutely. Remember, when you smoke you're inhaling paper and the associated glues.

One way around this is to roll your own with Hemp paper, Natural papers and possibly rice papers. (Don't quite know if there are any problems with inhaling burning rice.)

person wrote:
Another update on EVA. In studies online it does say that inhaled EVA causes nasal, throat and lung irritation, and may be carcinogenic.

Here's the weird part. I smoke organic NAS roll your own. I use the standard flax seed papers. On the package it says they use Natural gum as the adhesive.

But every morning I'm clearing out a lot (a lot) of mucus from my throat and chest. I have my theories.

1) It could be the flax seed paper.
2) Are they really using natural gum ?
3) Breathing in daily tailpipe exhaust is a big part of it, but is it causing all of it ? (Tobacco has anti-bacterial qualities. The "smokers cough" is the tobacco helping the lungs get rid of the damage of inhaling exhaust fumes.

and
4) just thought of it, what about lighter fluid ? That's pure petroluem based.

I've actually tried for a while to bypass that by lighting a small stick and using that, but didn't stick with it to see what differeince it made. Matches don't work. They coat them with Lighter fluid.

The only way to test these ideas completely would be to go someplace that has low to none exhaust fumes.
infinitethoughts Smoker
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