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by BB12
on Fri May 15, 2009 11:16 pm |
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Received a notice yesterday that says the state received information that I purchased untaxed cigs from Up in Smokes and can now self assess the tax under the new tax amnesty program without paying penalty.
My 81 year old mother also received the same notice. This is a first for me. I was under the impression that taxes were not due with the Indian Reservations and if another site was used and a tax was due it would be the obligation of the seller to collect that from me and remit to the state. I think it was a few years ago I even used this company. How in the world do you self assess if you have no clue as to what you purchased? If I owe a tax I would rather pay now to avoid the penalties, but if the state knew about this why didn't they notify me earlier? and why don't they give me the details of the purchase instead of asking me to list dates, cartons, and cost from 2002 to the present?
It also says they reserve the right to assess tax on anything I fail to self-assess! Well if they know, why don't they just tell me what I owe? If I overpay I won't be eligible for refund or credit under the amnesty. Boy, could they make it any more difficult. Who keeps online purchase records? I don't. July 2006 to now has a $25.75 a carton excise tax listed!
Looks like the state is just looking to punish people for being unaware of an obligation. Sellers, not individuals should be responsible for collecting and paying taxes. Why not step up regulations on the sites that sell to enforce them to collect or clearly inform buyers of their obligation of taxes. These site make it look like it's perfectly fine to purchase these tax free cigs, when that is not the case.
Has anyone ever done this self assessment? |
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BB12
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by runamok
on Sat May 16, 2009 7:39 am |
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BB12 wrote: It also says they reserve the right to assess tax on anything I fail to self-assess! Well if they know, why don't they just tell me what I owe?
Send them a letter (registered mail) with the tax form filled out (here in MN there is a form that can be accessed on-line for just this purpose and I suspect NJ has the same thing) for, say, 4 (pick a number) cartons of smokes along with a check for the tax due on that number of cartons. Send along a very nice note explaining that you recall purchasing these cigarettes but that you ceased buying from them when you found out that the proper taxes were not being paid. Explain that you would have sent them the money a long time ago if you'd known there was a form to fill for just such a remittance. (You want to give the impression that you are a good little tax-paying citizen who was led astray). Explain that you didn't keep any record of your purchase and that if their records show something different than what you recall, would they please send you copies of these purchase records so that you can fill out the proper paperwork and (happily) send them the tax money. In your closing, apologize profusely for the "misunderstanding". Write the whole thing in such a manner to show that you respect their authority. You want to, almost lovingly, kiss their ass.
I've heard of this exact same scenario before and I suspect that the only thing they know for sure is that you purchased from this company. They have no idea how often or what quantity so they go on fishing expeditions trying to bluff people into coming clean about their total purchases with penalty threats, etc. |
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runamok
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by gilster
on Sat May 16, 2009 8:19 am |
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I like that idea runamok - It's like buying a couple of tickets to the policeman's ball to get them to drop charges 
It is extortion but~ if you play~ they may go away. |
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gilster
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by BB12
on Sat May 16, 2009 10:39 pm |
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Thanks runamok, that sounds like a good idea. I don't see any of those forms you talk about on the website, just a link to pay unpaid cigarette tax were you have to put in date, cartons purchased.
What I'm not sure of is if this is just for Up in smokes or if I'm suppose to list any other on line purchases also. I really have to make something up because I have no idea! If I pay on the Up in Smokes charge, what happens to the other purchases? Am I suppose to pay those now too now? (no way to distinguish on form) Do I pay a higher amount which may include other online purchases? but if I do that will the state only think I'm paying for Up in Smokes and then come back for more, should other companies give out my name? I only have another 3 weeks to pay and by the time the State gets back to me I'm sure I will have missed the deadline.
No more online purchases for me! Had I known I would have stopped a long time ago. It's just not worth it.
I agree, right now it does just sound like a fishing expedition, but I'm sure sooner or later they will obtain the records and if I owe, I owe, not much I can do about that. I never intentionally set out to cheat the State, but there really making this difficult to figure this out! I can't even find a web site for this Up in Smokes anymore. I think it was maybe back in 2004 I used them! |
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BB12
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by LA
on Tue May 19, 2009 8:35 pm |
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| I got the same notice today that I purchased from Mighty Smokes and it was addressed to an old address that was forwarded to me. I haven't lived at that address since Oct 2006. Same thing, I don't have any records. It was along time ago. How am I suppose to know what I bought? I agree, why doesn't the state tell me what I owe? I know the place closed down. There is nothing on the WEB about them. It seem strange. Anyone else have any sugestions or thoughts about this? |
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LA
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by BB12
on Tue May 19, 2009 10:53 pm |
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The only thing we can do is take a wild guess and hope were at least close to right! If we underpay and they get the actual records we get hit with all the penalties. If we overpay, too bad for us. No refunds 
What bothers me the most is how the State waits 4-5 years before notifying us. If I had gotten a letter indicating that my online purchases were still subject to taxes, I would have submitted what I owed to the State years ago and would have considered myself warned. I feel bad, my poor mother only ordered because I gave her the info. I thought it would be more convenient for her to have them delivered to her also. |
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BB12
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by libertarian99
on Tue May 19, 2009 11:08 pm |
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LA wrote: I got the same notice today that I purchased from Mighty Smokes and it was addressed to an old address that was forwarded to me. I haven't lived at that address since Oct 2006. Same thing, I don't have any records. It was along time ago. How am I suppose to know what I bought? I agree, why doesn't the state tell me what I owe? I know the place closed down. There is nothing on the WEB about them. It seem strange. Anyone else have any sugestions or thoughts about this?
Since the address shows they are looking back three years or more, it would be plausible to claim you lost the records when you moved and are not able to verify the amount owed. It couldn't hurt to ask for copies of the purchase records on which they are basing their claim. If they can't give you the amount owed, it seems unlikely they have any concrete proof to pursue a claim against you, but that's just a guess. I'm not a lawyer. |
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libertarian99
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by LA
on Wed May 20, 2009 5:25 am |
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| Thanks for the reply. It does seem weird that they don't give an amount and that the reference to a purchase is old. Here's more thoughts. The NJ budget apparently has a large debt and must be passed this summer. I think the governor has to come up with one mid-June (end of the amnesty time). Mighty Smokes was a New York Seneca Indians company that was shut down using anti-terrorist legal means. I remember hearing that on a New York radio station. Was Up In Smoke also from New York? I also remember something about credit card companies agreeing to give info about cigarette purchases and also mail delivery services such as Fedex and UPS. That was a while ago. So a list could come from the vendor company, credit card company, or the delivery company. I am going to ask a lawyer about it. |
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LA
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by BB12
on Thu May 21, 2009 10:54 pm |
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| Does anybody know is there's a statue of limitations for collecting these taxes. I mean were going back about 5 years! |
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BB12
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by LA
on Fri May 22, 2009 5:24 am |
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| For me it's almost 4 years because the notice was sent to an old address. I don't know but I am trying to find out and will post when I have some info. Was the place they named for you a New York State place? It sounds to me as if the state has gotten hold of a mailing list. That's all. |
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LA
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