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by BWilliams
on Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:08 pm |
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| You're a f ucking idiot. Delete every link in the world after I sell, what do I care?!? |
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BWilliams
Smoking Lobby Sponsor
Joined: Jun 05, 2003
Posts: 1104
Location: New York City
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by ToFearMyself
on Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:36 pm |
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This had been about the enlightening and raising awareness of issues we would need to be prepared for with the constant upheaval of anti-smoking conflicts-to-be.
It appears to me that, if either of you would have taken these last four days to write in the same manner and with the same outspokenness you have for one-another, something might actually have taken the politicians aback a pace or two.
Rather than have new persons watching this place go down the tubes because of a spat. |
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ToFearMyself
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Joined: Mar 13, 2009
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Location: Glendive, Montana
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by Jay
on Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:51 pm |
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I got anotha email from Michael McFadden. I wish I knew what's wrong with his computer as far as why he can't post on here. But I'll include the WHOLE email to prove I'm not playing.
You can probably guess which part of this email is the reply he intended to post on here. At least I hope so.
I'm only doing him a favor.
Quote: sigh:: I'm *still* unable to post properly there.
Can I ask you to post a response for me to Bill?
Thank you Jay!
Michael
=====
Bill, you wrote, "You mean the Michael McFadden that partnered with Smokers Club and advertises his book on there? Yeah, I'm sure he's worth listening to. He refused to put a link to smokinglobby on his site years ago when I asked him because he said he had an exclusive payout agreement with Smokers Club."
LOL! "Payout agreement" ? Heehee... that's pretty wild. I like the sound of it... might keep me in chocolate! :>
Bill, I can't find your email address in order to check what emails we may have had, but I *do* certainly know exactly what I would have told you about exchanging links because it's the same thing I tell EVERYONE: I don't have the web skills to do such things and I don't feel right asking the friends who have done my sites to go running back there and putting links in. FORCES and the CLUB both have done a good job of gathering links for sharing with everyone.
btw... I don't advertise on ANY site: anyplace you see Brains out there it's because people have read it and think it's valuable enough to our cause to promote it. I tried a low end "Google Ad Words" for a couple of months but it seemed to do more in terms of riling up crazy folks than it did in terms of attracting people to read the book so I dropped it.
Payout agreement??? Heehee.... that really IS funny. I don't even know what a payout agreement IS! LOLOL!
:>
Michael J. McFadden
Author of "Dissecting Antismokers' Brains"
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Jay
Enthusiastic Smoker
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Posts: 647
Location: Chicago
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by smokersclub
on Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:31 pm |
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You wrote:
Quote: Samantha is right, I was the only person in a decade to ask about combining the forums, and she shot down my idea to combine the forums and only wanted to put an RSS feed up. She did not want to combine the forums. And she got upset that I was promoting a link to support fundraising at FORCES, and she said, and here I quote her in the email dated April 3, 2007:
"But on the other hand I was promoting Forces like you are, and ignoring my own donations, and now I'm about one computer crash away from the Club being off line. We really need to get some money in for equipment and sending our forum folks to your forum to be asked for money for Forces defeats the purpose of trying to stay online.Gian knows this, that we have to stop promoting his fund raising."
NOW YOU SEE THE F UCKING TRUTH!!!!!
She got upset that I had a link up to raise donations for FORCES. It was all ALWAYS ABOUT THE MONEY! Smoker's Club asks for donations and free handouts, AND MAKES A MINT off of traffic advertising. And since I was trying to support FORCES at the time THEY REFUSED TO SEND TRAFFIC TO SMOKINGLOBBY.
KNOW YOUR FACTS ABOUT WHO YOU ARE SUPPORTING. Don't blindly trust anyone.
******************
I'm not sure what started all this. I was being honest with you then and a lot of people know it, and how close I came to having to close down the Club. I had NO money and had to finally ask for donations when after a decade of footing the bill myself, the computer was ready to die and I didn't have money for the internet bill. I borrowed.
I do not or ever have made a dime on "traffic advertising" and I'm not sure where you are getting that information.
I've always had a link to your forum, and I don't know why Forces didn't as well.
I was very disapointed that you couldn't figure out the RSS thing either as I was excited about the idea of combining our forums. The RSS feed was the first step in the process.
I think you are right about not blindly trusting anyone. I thought you were a really great guy. Perhaps you still are and I was right about you, and you are going thru a rough time right now and are lashing out at people who don't deserve it. If that is the case, I hope things go well for you and this year is a great one for us all. |
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smokersclub
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Joined: Jul 11, 2007
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Location: Center Conway, NH
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by JoshNJ
on Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:56 am |
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Jay wrote: There are already forums on Topix in particular where smokers AND antismokers can attack each other freely. When I read "Advocating smokers rights worldwide," that implies to me smokers are welcome here, and antis will be allowed to post provided they don't attack smokers like little kids. I guess I was wrong.
Normally I would not involve myself with ranting posts, but I feel now is the time to say something here after reading Bill's posting on the front page. It sounds like you only care about the freedoms and rights that work for you and want to ignore the rest. I agree, somewhat, that just plain old anti-smoker bashing contributes nothing to the discussions and topics on this forum, but you still need to learn how to respond to those attacks. Yes, they didn't come here to learn about pro-smoking issues, but only to enrage people and vent their anger toward smokers. Still, it is important that you learn to respond to any comment or opinion with more than "f 'dat." You don't win a fight by ignoring punches.
Jay wrote: For a site that advocates smokers rights worldwide, it wouldn't suck to me. Antis have their own house on the net. And so do smokers.
It sounds like you prefer a blog than a forum then. You only want to spread your thoughts and opinions, and not listen to the arguments truthfully. How do you expect to educate or learn from non-smokers if you censor or ignore their viewpoints? How will you learn if you have rights or what issues you must advocate if you don't have all the information? Turning a blind eye or ignoring someone's voice makes someone a weaker person who cannot handle controversy.
Jay wrote: Based on that logic, were racists, anti-religious folks, and maybe even animal haters ever allowed to post on here. This is a "free and open discussion forum?" I guess as long as they stick to smoking topics, they would be welcome to post on here. But even seeing those lowlifes post would send the wrong message of this site "advocating smokers rights worldwide."
I don't see your logic there honestly. It is quite clear what Bill was trying to say: allow a free and open discussion on the topics of smoking. It would not be censorship to block or remove content unrelated to smoking issues since it goes against the site's purpose. Allowing both sides to discuss their views helps to educate everyone, especially those who come here without a preference to one side or the other.
Jay wrote: I dunno if you mean smoking forums/antismoking forums specifically. But if a moderator tried controlling me and censoring me on say an ANTI-smoking forum. There's a reason for that, and the mod has every right to do that to me. Cause for one thang, the #1 Q that mod and otha posters would be asking e is "Jay, why are you even posting on this forum? Go back to your smokers rights forums/smoking fetish forums!"
Free and open discussions are common on Topix. Even certain newspapers moderate comments for news articles. If you don't like censorship on the net, I wonder if you hate rules on jobs as well.
That is a very ignorant and hypocritical feeling you are expressing that people deserve to be censored on the internet. The internet should be less stringent and unfettered than any other place in the world. If you are having a discussion on a controversial topic and a moderator comes along and asks you, "why are even posting on this forum?" then be proud your voice is being heard.
Jay wrote: I'm not interested in visiting an antismoking state, let alone what happened on 9-11 was enough to convince me to neva get on a plane period. Why fly if you can't smoke on a plane? Smokers not getting on planes can actually save their lives since a plane crash can happen at any given time.
Statistically speaking, flying is safer than driving or riding in a car, train, or bus figured on a per-hour basis. If you figure it on a per-trip basis, then a car, train and bus comes out safer than the airplane. In any event, hiding from anti-smoking states or avoiding to take part in normal activities out of fear is not how I would suggest living your life. However, it is ultimately your choice to act and believe in what makes you happy. There is more to a state than its stance on smoking. Besides, don't you live in a state with a smoking ban?
Besides your aviophobia, you have other important issues to deal with, specifically your writing ability and style. I understand you do not care about how others perceive you and feel proud to type phonetically. However, when you are trying to convey a strong message or argue a serious topic, it is unprofessional and unsettling (similar to typing in all caps or spamming). There is a reason everyone attends school to learn how to speak and write properly. I am assuming that you have respect for others on the forum, but why would you want to practice intentional butchering of the english language when speaking to them? It is a sign of respect to follow this subset of netiquette and not a sign of weakness if that was your concern. |
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JoshNJ
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by Lynda F
on Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:09 pm |
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JoshNJ wrote:
Normally I would not involve myself with ranting posts, but I feel now is the time to say something here after reading Bill's posting on the front page.
That was very nicely done Josh! And thank you for taking the time to express yourself. I've been wanting to but with all the very real life issues I'm facing at the moment, I just couldn't find the right mental down time to be as eloquent as you were here. |
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Lynda F
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Joined: May 02, 2007
Posts: 501
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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by ladyteal
on Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:57 pm |
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I've been a regular poster on TOPIX, and have refrained from visiting that site for over 3 months. I was so sick of the bigotry and vitrol, that I just stopped even reading the posts. Speakeasy, Smoking Lobby, Forces, Freedom to Choose, Smokers Club, and The Rest of the Story all represent a safe haven to me. Some place I can read what's going on without being called a low-life, degenerate, mentally ill, child abuser, baby killer, murderer, uneducated, sub-human smoker. If anyone doesn't believe that this is what the antis do on smoking sites, just pop over to the smoking forums on topix. I guarantee YOU will be shocked.
If an anti would just post for mutual debate, that's one thing. But, when a smoker attempts to honestly debate an anti, the antis just start with the name calling. There is no way to mutually debate with an anti that just wishes immediate painful death to all smokers.
I'm not a regular poster here, or on the other pro smoking sites mentioned above. However, I am a VERY regular reader of all of these sites.
Bill and Jay you both sound like spoiled brats. |
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ladyteal
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Joined: Apr 23, 2007
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by Jay
on Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:59 pm |
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Quote: There is a reason everyone attends school to learn how to speak and write properly. I am assuming that you have respect for others on the forum, but why would you want to practice intentional butchering of the english language when speaking to them?
Well in the real world, I respect others as long as they respect me, John. How the heck do you expect me to respect someone when he thinks my writing is "one more important thang I gotta worry about?"
Whateva is all I gotta say about those words I have in quotes in my reply. Last time I checked, this isn't a job-related forum or a dating forum where it definitely is more appropriate to write formally. I'm not on here looking for a job or looking to find a new woman to be friends with. I'm here to be me like I am offline. Honest, and I'll give othas the same treatment they give me. That's how I respect othas offline. What makes it different on here?
And BTW, John, if you got a problem with the way I write informally, who said you're forced to read my posts?
I'll respond to the rest of your quotes in a different post.
PS: It's good that you're in the minority in terms of not liking the way I write. I graduated from HS in 1996 as #19 out of 363 graduates in my class. I got mostly A's and B's in college as well. I suggest you keep your mouth shut on that school comment for me.
PPS: If I got any more serious issues to deal with, it ain't my writing on this informal site. It's dealing with making and saving moolah. And my writing on here isn't gonna make me make money. LOL!!!! |
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Jay
Enthusiastic Smoker
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by Jay
on Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:16 pm |
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Quote: Normally I would not involve myself with ranting posts, but I feel now is the time to say something here after reading Bill's posting on the front page. It sounds like you only care about the freedoms and rights that work for you and want to ignore the rest. I agree, somewhat, that just plain old anti-smoker bashing contributes nothing to the discussions and topics on this forum, but you still need to learn how to respond to those attacks. Yes, they didn't come here to learn about pro-smoking issues, but only to enrage people and vent their anger toward smokers. Still, it is important that you learn to respond to any comment or opinion with more than "f 'dat." You don't win a fight by ignoring punches.
Oh, do you mean like a reply for an anti on here like this one?
"I respectfully disagree. There is no clear evidence that SHS kills, and smokers are not murders. And if you want to choke me to death as you told me in your PM ("you" in reference to that childish anti on here), then feel free to come to my home and do it. Want my snail address?"
That reply sounds like a way a smoker can show respect to an anti without the bashing. But you're not gonna win a "fight" with an attitude like that even with an OFFLINE fight. Not unless (in the case of an offline fight) you don't mind an anti beating a smoker up and sending the smoker to the hospital.
What would normally drive an anti away from an online fight is either the posters learn to ignore his dumb posts, or if the forum has an active moderator who will ban him. If the moderator insists on "not censoring" the anti, then he needs to encourage the posters to ignore the anti's posts so he can leave on his own. It doesn't matta HOW you respnd to the anti. You just keep giving him more fuel by responding to him period.
The anti on here is similar to anti posters I've seen on Topix. If anyone tells me online OR offline "I'll choke you to death," that is VERY hard for me to ignore if I don't have the option of placing his posts on ignore, and if he's not gonna get disciplined by the moderator. Ignoring a quote like that is like someone telling me to not fight back afta someone punches me offline and knocks me down.
If you think I'm gonna be nice to any anti talking to me like that, you must be in a fantasy world, and that's putting it nicely. If an anti is on a forum just to stir up trouble, that's a good reason to ban his arse. But if the anti is not gonna get ban, I'm gonna respond to him the same way he talks to me. Rememba my point on respecting others in my previous post?
If you want respect from me, you gotta earn it. And nobody is gonna get respect from me if they're antis who hint killing me, and someone who makes my style of writing sound like a serious issue when it's not. You gotta learn just like in the real world, every person online is different too. If you don't like the way I do something, tough luck. |
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Jay
Enthusiastic Smoker
Joined: Jun 10, 2003
Posts: 647
Location: Chicago
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by Jay
on Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:38 pm |
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Quote: It sounds like you prefer a blog than a forum then. You only want to spread your thoughts and opinions, and not listen to the arguments truthfully. How do you expect to educate or learn from non-smokers if you censor or ignore their viewpoints?
Oh I have a blog actually, but that's not the major point I see in this post. Based on how you make me sound, I'm surprised you're not smart enough as me to understand the difference between a "non-smoker" and an anti-smoker." I even think I mention the difference between the two groups in a very old post in my blog.
A non-smoker is a person who doesn't smoke, but a non-smoker actually respects smokers. A lot of non-smokers even hate the idea of banning smoking in adult-only places. A non-smoker wouldn't mind a civil and professional debate with smokers.
An antismoker not only doesn't smoke, but he/she hates smokers a LOT. They're fascists, and they don't believe in a civilized discussion. They believe in doing what it takes to get rid of tobacco and all smokers on Planet Earth. Why do you think they keep hoping tobacco is illegal one day, and why do you think they hope to see a smoke-free USA one day?
Their behavior is a lot different from a non-smoker's behavior. Aside from the bashing and fighting they do on forums, they write like first graders. A lot of them can't even do simple thangs like capitalize the first word of a sentence. I know if those a-holes want respect, it would help if they can at least give me some "B writing" instead of "Failure Writing."
(And the people on this forum think MY writing is a serious issue? I've seen a few antis write SO BAD on forums, it makes me laugh to see them even arguing with smokers, when the smokers have a lot more sense to begin with.)
An antismoker to me is a lot more like anotha version of a racist. But I guess that's why there's the "FAS-cist" word to describe antismokers. I already understand how antismokers think and feel. I'm not a newbie to smoking activism, thank you.
Does this forum have nonsmoking posters? Most likely. I'm sure a few nonsmokers popped up on here over the past 10 years. I bet there are actual civil smoking debates on here between smokers and nonsmokers.
Does this forum have antismoking posters? Definitely! Certainly not as many antismokers on a Topix forum. But when one antismoker comes on here and makes it clear through his words that he/she ain't here for civilized discussions, that is enough to convince someone like me to not come back here if the anti tries to make him/herself a regular poster. |
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Jay
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Location: Chicago
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