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by Darkseid
on Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:06 am |
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Source:
www.toledocitypaper.com
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Is rock ‘n’ roll noise pollution?
Local restaurant owners and City Council turn up the volume on the debate over summer patio noise
by Ryan A. Bunch
published October 15th 2008
As local bars winterize their patios, City Council is planning changes in the way outdoor music will be heard in the summer of 2009.
District 5 Councilman Tom Waniewski (R) says he and other councilmen have recently taken up the issue of noise and its affect on local neighborhoods.
“This summer I’ve had more complaints [than before]. Next to potholes and security, seasonally, noise [complaints about] a couple of bars in the area are right up there in the emails I receive,” said Waniewski.
Councilman At Large Joe McNamara (D) said Waniewski wasn’t the only one dealing with the issue of noise pollution. He believes the state-wide smoking ban has lead to “an explosion of outdoor smoking patios with music.”
Waniewski made note that most bars in his district, and most of the bars in the city, have been responsible. But, continuously problematic ones are being targeted.
“I’m not trying to eliminate music and dancing in Toledo. I like to have a drink on the patio too. But, you can’t be a good business if you’re not going to be a good neighbor,” said Waniewski.
McNamara said a Council committee was formed to review the issue and its original legislation drafted by the City’s Law Department. “It is already against the law to be bothersome with noise, whether it be barking dogs, music, etc. But we thought these laws didn’t have enough bite,” Waniewski said, calling the current laws “vague and unenforceable.”
“We increased the penalty to $250 - $500 per violation per day,” Waniewski said. The committee also added a clause where owners of the establishments would be fined $75 on the first offense, $150 on the second, and $300 on the third. District 2 Councilman D. Michael Collins (Independent) says he interjected at this point, calling for “a greater degree of resolution.”
Collins was concerned that “businesses would come to see the fine as a part of their operating cost,” essentially meaning it would fall into budget line items like cleaning supplies and the electric bill, and that businesses would adjust through cover charges and raising drink prices.
Collins and Waniewski have proposed a clause that would suspend the business owner’s operating license for two days upon receiving the third offense, with increasing suspensions for each subsequent offense, up to a 15-day suspension on the fifth offense. As a compromise, hours of enforcement were changed from 9 p.m. - 7 a.m. to 11 p.m. - 7 a.m., noting that the noise had to be clearly audible 200 ft. from the source.
Speaking about the suspension clause, Collins said he feels it is the best way to deal with the limited number of operators who are “not all that concerned about [the issue].”
Jesus Angel, owner of El Camino Real Mexican restaurant, which hosts one of the most popular patios in town, says he is okay with the proposed laws. “I think I can live with it. What I like is they’re changing the time to 11 p.m., which is when we stop the live music anyway,” he said. After 11 p.m., Angel says customers are content to listen to the satellite radio until closing time, which has yet to generate any complaints.
Not all owners are pleased though. Nick Tokles, namesake of Nick & Jimmy’s Bar and Grill at 4956 Monroe St. (which has been the subject of a number of complaints in Waniewski’s district), and one of the infamous T-Town Boys who also own Sylvania’s Village Inn, Basin St. Grille, and a Nick & Jimmy’s in Temperance, Mich., says he’s had enough, calling Council’s proposed laws “another nail in the coffin in Toledo.”
“There goes entertainment in Toledo on patios,” Tokles said, “The youth doesn’t even begin to go out until 10 or 10:30 p.m.”
Tokles recently attended a Council committee meeting to voice his opinions, but says he feels he is “being kept in the dark.” He only accidently learned of the meeting while visiting a friend in the neighborhood when the woman leading the charge against him knocked on the door, recruiting for her cause. “I’ve received no mail, no notification at all. They’re trying to control my business and I don’t even get a say,” he said. As for being a good neighbor, Tokles says he thinks the T-Town Boys have done pretty well. “This place will be 30-years old next year, we’ve had music out on that patio for 28 years. We’ve worked hard to make this a safe place and a clean place to come to,” he said.
While it seems sure something will happen, no one seems to know just what. Waniewski says the problem lies in enforcement. “Right now, we’re trying to determine who has authority to issue these citations,” he said.
Collins also noted that occupancy is a property issue and the Law Department has said that the rules cannot be changed after the fact for businesses established under current occupancy laws. Collins resists this ‘grandfather clause’ thinking, and used the analogy of changing speed limits to make his point.
“When I applied for my driver’s license, the speed limits on expressways were 75 miles per hour. They’ve since been lowered to 55 mph. I can’t say that I’m still allowed to drive 75 mph because that was the limit when I got my license,” he said.
On a different note, McNamara says he was opposed to the license suspension because of how it might affect third parties. “If a bar has an out of town band booked on a Saturday, and on Friday they violate and are suspended, I don’t think it’s fair to punish that band for the venue’s problem,” he said.
The legality of Council’s ability to pass legislation that would suspend an owner’s right to do business is currently being reviewed by the Law Department.
Waniewski supported the suspension clause, but as it is being worked out, he says he would like to see businesses have to request a special permit for outdoor music. Asked how he might respond to critics, the councilman said , “This isn’t an anti-business thing, and it isn’t political. The laws have been on the books, we just haven’t done a good job enforcing them. I think the businesses can still do well. It’s just a matter of [them] learning to manage the market.”
Tokles has a different view though, he sees these types of laws having a detrimental impact on Toledo’s future, “They say they want youth to stay in this town, but for what reason? Why would they want to stay here? There aren’t any jobs and now you can’t even go out and have a good time,” he said, adding that bars like Legend’s Sports Grille (in the former Durty Bird location at 2 S. St. Clair St.) have been cited with noise violations, despite its falling in the Warehouse District Arts and Entertainment Zone. “You establish an entertainment district, and then fine the bar in it for having entertainment? That doesn’t make any sense,” Tokles said.
McNamara admits that the Arts and Entertainment Zones are tricky territory, and it has been discussed, with no resolution as of press time, whether or not they should be included, or exempt from the proposed law change.
Tokles offered his own solution to the problem, “Just because it’s heard, doesn’t mean it should be illegal,” he said, suggesting a decibel limit be agreed upon, and then measured during complaints. “If it’s over the limit, then fine us. If it’s under the limit, then fine them for bitching. That’s part of the problem, there is no recourse for bitching,” he said, saying it’s a waste of police time and community resources, especially when the same neighborhood Nick & Jimmy’s is in has experienced recent crime such as break-ins and a stabbing. Tokles sees the issue as a ‘squeaky wheel getting the grease’ situation; that a minority of complaints are affecting the majority.
McNamara says there are issues with the decibel question, though, mostly equipment. “A decibel enforcement requirment is problematic, mostly because our officers don’t carry decibel readers,” he said, adding that police should be “out catching bad guys,” not measuring sound levels. “I don’t know if you need to do that though. If it’s 3 a.m. and the bass content is shaking your bed posts in your home — it’s too loud,” he said.
Collins says he found that to be the case in his district, where noise from one nightclub has allegedly shaken pictures on the walls of resident’s homes “hundreds of feet away,” and once set an elderly woman with Alzheimer’s into an “uncontrollably disturbed state from nearly three football fields away.”
“It’s a true problem,” said Collins, “It is absolutely unacceptable to have that volume of sound have your pictures on the wall shaking.”
Tokles has a different perspective of his business though. “If anything, it’s gotten quieter over the years. I remember when [some of these people] complaining used to party their asses off. I don’t know if they’ve just forgotten what it’s like to be young, or what,” Tokles continued, reminiscing of the days when Nick & Jimmy’s would host parking lot party fundraisers for the Toledo Zoo, local children’s homes, and other causes. “I think we have [been good neighbors]. Twenty-eight years ago, the people were younger and the times were wilder. Now, [these people] act like they don’t know they live in a commercial zone,” he said.
But Tokles isn’t gearing up for battle. Instead, he says he has had enough. “I’m tired of it. I’ve decided. I’m not going to live in this negative town anymore,” he said. When the economy picks up, he’ll consider selling and plans to relocate somewhere more supportive. “Anything you try to do that is positive, you get shot down. There’s no longer a majority rule, it’s a minority running everything,” he said.
Is Toledo willing to lose one of its staple eateries over the issue of noise? McNamara says he hopes it doesn’t have to come to that. “We need to develop a community that is inclusive to everyone. The owner of the venue has to take into account its neighborhood. I can’t believe he can’t find some happy medium with his neighbors. I think a solution is possible,” he said, mentioning things like sound barriers, and noting that in most cases, it is the bass content that encourages the most complaints.
Waniewski also mentioned some bars who’ve sought solutions, including turning from two large booming speakers, to a number of smaller speakers placed around their patio, or businesses that have cut the music at 11 p.m. but kept the patio open for patrons the rest of the night, such as El Camino.
Collins agrees that neighbors don’t want to see business leave, but do want to get a good night’s sleep. “As long as there is a respect for the neighborhood, as long as the peace and tranquillity of the neighborhood is not compromised, they are fine with the businesses,” he said.
Council hasn’t officially offered solutions to bar owners, but McNamara said it has been mentioned that local businesses seeking solutions might be put in touch with sound engineers at the University of Toledo, and that potential solutions should be explored before businesses talk about shutting down.
With the verdict still out, McNamara says the discussion is a concern to him, and finding a resolution isn’t quite cut and dried. “It’s a really difficult issue. I want to do something to help the neighbors, but I certainly don’t want to kill the music scene in Toledo, either,” he said.
The earliest date council may be able to pass the legislation would be Tuesday, October 21. Depending on the agreements, or lack of, made with the Law Department, it seems the sounds Toledo’s patios will make when they thaw out next spring are up in the air. |
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Darkseid
Smoking Lobby Sponsor
Joined: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 1513
Location: Peoples Republik of oHEILo
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by JEEP_GOD
on Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:16 am |
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| Kind of makes you think that there is a more sinister purpose behind this, which would be to prevent people from gathering, which many times leads to talk of politics, and the general condition of things, and those kinds of subjects along with free thought do not seem to be well looked upon in times like these. |
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JEEP_GOD
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by runamok
on Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:26 pm |
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JEEP_GOD wrote: Kind of makes you think that there is a more sinister purpose behind this, which would be to prevent people from gathering, which many times leads to talk of politics, and the general condition of things, and those kinds of subjects along with free thought do not seem to be well looked upon in times like these. |
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runamok
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by runamok
on Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:10 am |
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Along these same lines:
http://www2.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=808814
Taverns are a hotbed of grass-roots politics
Jim Polster, who owns MJ’s Food & Spirits in Brownsville, is one blade of grass in the Tavern League of Wisconsin’s grass-roots operation.
And this is how he did his part to help kill the smoking ban this year:
First, Polster wrote Gov. Jim Doyle a letter arguing against the bill, pointing out how it could harm businesses like his.
Polster, the president of the Dodge County Tavern League, got a form letter back and taped it above the urinals in his tavern.
Then he circulated a petition at his bar against the smoking ban and got 200 signers. He took it with him to the Capitol on March 5.
Dean Larsen, who operates the Hog’s Nest Saloon in Kansasville, helped recruit about 30 people to join in the Capitol lobbying day in March.
Larsen, president of the Racine County Tavern League, ran an ad in a weekly newspaper seeking volunteers and also talked up the issue with his patrons, many of whom were eager to help. In total, more than 800 people from throughout Wisconsin went to Madison to lobby legislators.
In the time it takes to pour a beer, mix a brandy old-fashioned or serve a fish fry, Wisconsin tavern owners can get their customers involved in their causes, or at least tell them why something pending in the Capitol would be bad or good for business.
“That’s a huge intangible that the Tavern League has,” Tavern League Executive Director Pete Madland said. “We’re all independent operators. We aren’t chains. I don’t have to worry about a labor union, or a labor agreement, to talk to my customers. I can put up a sign that says whatever I want it to say.”
“We talk to voters every day,” he added. “It’s unfiltered. It’s basically, ‘Here’s what I think. You’re in here every day. We support this (candidate), and you should do the same.’ ”
Polster shatters every stereotype of the Wisconsin bar owner in his or her 50s or 60s, hoping to hang on until they retire. At 41, he’s a next-generation owner, articulate and passionate about what might be next if smoking is banned.
“What happens when we make the (illegal blood-alcohol level) 0.06, or 0.04?” he said. “Next thing, they’ll want to shove in the interlocks. . . . Is that fair to somebody who never had a drunk driving (conviction)?”
I'd be willing to bet that the Boston Tea Party was conceived of and planned in a tavern. |
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runamok
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by JEEP_GOD
on Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:38 pm |
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| I'll hazard a guess that a good portion of the American Revolution was plotted in Taverns as well. |
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JEEP_GOD
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Joined: Jul 08, 2006
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Location: Welcome to camp smoke free!!!
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