Tax bills out in CT

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by STDog on Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:38 pm

Jay wrote:

Just because somethang is a law doesn't mean you have to follow it. And just because it's a law and "in the books" doesn't mean it will be enforced. Thee are several laws that are not enforced offline in Chicago. What would make this so-called law about reporting purchases online any different?

Which law? Jenkins Act? That's only applicable to cigarettes. And it wasn't enforced for a long time. I'm still not clear why web sites have started reporting the sales. I just know that they are supposed to, and you can be sure the state is going to collect any taxes they can. Know that they have proof of the purchase they can collect the tax.

Quote:

I'm still gonna buy anythang online as long as shops are legal online. It's illegal for a kid to buy cigs offline. That law is "in the books." But kids in the hood can buy packs with no problem.

Sorry, I'm poor white boy from a small town in Tennessee. I moved to Mississippi for college when I finished my military training. I know nothing of the hood.

I do know of store being fined heavily, losing licenses and being closed down for selling tobacco to under age kids. Same with alcohol sales.

But I knew where I could get stuff to.

STDog

Newbie Joined: Feb 23, 2008 Posts: 25

by STDog on Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:51 pm

Jay wrote:

Just confess you were wrong that you can't buy firearms and alcohol online, bozo. Who cares where the shop is located? If they deliever to the US, then they could be in France for all I care.

Having a firearm shipped to a local dealer where you pick it up is not what most people think of as buying online.

If you had to have your cigarettes shipped to a local store to pick then up, and pay the store a handling fee, would you consider that buying online?

I'm not sure the Canadian shop will actually ship to the states that prohibit it.
Granted there is nothing on their site about that. They do mention some countries not allowing it.

I just know I've tried to order wine from online stores. (local selection sucks)
Even the ones that don't mention it upfront, canceled my order and tell me they cannot ship to Mississippi.

So, my experience is that I cannot buy alcohol online. Luckily you can in Illinois, it's not possible in many states.

Last edited by STDog on Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:57 am; edited 1 time in total

STDog

Newbie Joined: Feb 23, 2008 Posts: 25

by Jay on Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:57 am

Quote:

Considering I PLACED the order online, yes. You forgot you can do what you're asking about at those stores you listed. You can order the item online, and pick it up at a nearby store.

So what you're saying is if you buy an item from a major store outlet's site, like Wal-Mart, and you pick it up at Wal-Mart, then you didn't really buy it online. If you wanted to go and pick up the item, you're betta off going to the actual Wal-Mart instead, since you're wasting gasoline in going up there to pick it up anyway.

There are reasons why that firearm is shipped to a local store. And confirming your identity is just one of those reasons. I'm sure they look into your background to see if you're a felon. Because that's what happened with one guy I used to hang out with. He can go into a shop and look at guns. But he can't buy one since he's a felon.

And I'm sure if he attempted to buy a gun online, he would be outta luck in picking it up once they learn who he really is. And showing his ID certainly won't resolve the situation.

That sounds similar to tobacco shops that require you to submit a picture ID when you place your first order with them. And of course, the stuff on that ID must match with what your account says, including matching addresses. When buying some thangs online, you need to submit documents/ID copies before the shop can even process your order. And in the case of firearms, I'm sure going to the shop the gun is delivered to is also to assure the gun isn't being sold to a minor. That still counts as an online purchase though.

BTW, I wouldn't botha buying alcohol online even if I did drink a lot. Drinks are a HECK of a lot more cheapa than a cig pack offline. In that sense, I don't see the point of buying bottles online.

And actually, the cig brand I smoke ain't available offline anyway.

Jay

Enthusiastic Smoker Joined: Jun 10, 2003 Posts: 461 Location: Chicago

by Jay on Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:22 am

Quote:

Contact a local dealer and arrange for them to conduct the transfer.

Be sure that they are aware that a firearm will be sent to them on your behalf, and that they agree to this. Also, be sure that any and all fees associated with the transfer are agreed upon prior to the order being placed.

This step is a lot similar to online tobacco shops that require a person to send them a copy of your drivers license/state ID afta you place your first order with them. If they don't get the copy, then the order will NOT be processed.

That first step on how to buy a gun online is to assure minors in particular ain't buying them. Because a minor wouldn't botha lookin into buying a gun online if he/she is forced to go to a local gun dealer first.

The reality is I dunno who would buy guns online anyway. There may not be illegal gun dealers in the streets everywhere in the nation. But they're certainly here in Chicago. More people have illegal guns than registered guns. And the illegal gun holders sadly include the minors.

A minor can get away with buying cigs online (if the shop doesn't require verification or signatures on first-ever orders) or amazon.com items online by stealing the parents' credit card. But not with buying guns online.

Actually, thanks to technology, a minor can submit a copy of a fake ID that looks so real to the online smoke shop before having the order processed.

Jay

Enthusiastic Smoker Joined: Jun 10, 2003 Posts: 461 Location: Chicago

by STDog on Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:01 am

Jay wrote:

So what you're saying is if you buy an item from a major store outlet's site, like Wal-Mart, and you pick it up at Wal-Mart, then you didn't really buy it online. If you wanted to go and pick up the item, you're betta off going to the actual Wal-Mart instead, since you're wasting gasoline in going up there to pick it up anyway.

Correct. I don't see that as being any different than having a local store special order something for me, or calling them to confirm availability.

I do that all the time with auto parts.

For places that offer ship-to-store it's cheaper for me. I'll pay sales tax either way. It's ~3 miles to most stores I'd order from. My worst mileage vehicle gets 10mpg around town, so less than a gallon of gas ($3.25 or so), even if I make a special trip. But I'm 3/4 of the way there every week day taking my son to school. My wife's there every day too picking him up, and in the area 2-3 times a week shopping.

Quote:

There are reasons why that firearm is shipped to a local store. And confirming your identity is just one of those reasons. I'm sure they look into your background to see if you're a felon.
...
And in the case of firearms, I'm sure going to the shop the gun is delivered to is also to assure the gun isn't being sold to a minor.

Interesting how "right of the people ... shall not be infringed" is ignored.

I don't remember the details, but it's the Commerce in Firearms and Ammunition that governs this. Intrastate transfers/sales are different than interstate transfers/sales.

Interstate always requires a licensed dealer at the destination. The dealer there is required to do all the paperwork just as if they were selling the firearm, including keeping the records. And they will usually charge fees top do this. Here's it's around $25. I've heard as low as $10, and over $50 in my general area.

To me that the same sort of singling out of a certain sale as the cigarette tax. You may view the sale of a firearm differently than cigarettes, but I don't. Remember this covers all firearms, like rifles and shotguns.

Quote:

And actually, the cig brand I smoke ain't available offline anyway.

That's the main reason I shop online, limited selection locally. If I had a decent choice in wines, I'd drink a bottle a week. Storage isn't a problem with wine and hard liquor.

If I could get samples of the tobacco's I'm interested in I might buy them. As it stands, it's cheaper to buy what I do locally. I'd have to buy large quantities to recover the high shipping fees, and tobacco is more difficult to store (no room for a humidor that'll hold 15-20 lbs)

STDog

Newbie Joined: Feb 23, 2008 Posts: 25

by STDog on Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:18 am

Jay wrote:

The reality is I dunno who would buy guns online anyway.

For many of the same reasons you buy cigarettes online, or automobiles.
Selection, service, price.

Firearms can be bought used, like autos, which doesn't work with cigarettes. But Cigars and wine
have sought after makes and years, that if properly stored are quite valuable.

So I may not be able to find a particular item locally, but I could find it online, maybe 1000 miles away. (I bought my 1970 Cadillac from someone in Miami, Florida, 950 miles away).

Anyway this has gotten way of topic. The whole reason for mentioning firearms or alcohol was to point or that other items have special treatment when it comes to online/mail order sale.

Alcohol went through issues with online sales several years ago. It just didn't impact as many people as cigarettes are. And the cigarette taxes are being dealt with at the same time as other smoking issues, especially the smoking bans, and ridiculous tax increases, so it's getting more attention.

If all the other attacks on smokers and smoking weren't happening at the same time, I don't think taxes for online sales would get nearly as much attention.

FYI, good luck with getting the ban repealed. I've tried with the local bans here and cannot get much interest. At least 3 restaurants I frequented before the ban are closed now.

STDog

Newbie Joined: Feb 23, 2008 Posts: 25

by patdaly on Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:04 pm

Jay man, I love ya bro, but you cannot just order a gun online.
You have to arrange for a local Gun dealer to recieve the gun, and then they become the dealer of record who sold it to you.

STDog is trying to tell you to be careful. That is wise advice, because MANY people in Illinois have been whacked with huge tax bills. Fortunately I quit when the Swiss quit selling, or I am sure I would have been hit........ In any instance, why not just do MYO? That is 100 percent legal because only class J Federal taxes apply.

patdaly

Smoker Joined: Jan 02, 2005 Posts: 197 Location: Streator Illinois

by STDog on Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:10 pm

patdaly wrote:

Jay man, I love ya bro, but you cannot just order a gun online.
You have to arrange for a local Gun dealer to recieve the gun, and then they become the dealer of record who sold it to you.

Thanks Pat.

Quote:

In any instance, why not just do MYO? That is 100 percent legal because only class J Federal taxes apply.

I believe that's the same as the sales/use tax. The state taxes (and probably local too) are legally required on loose tobacco and cigars.

The difference is, there's no federal law that requires the seller to notify the state. If there was, then it'd be like the cigarette tax and income tax (at least the part that is reported).

Income taxes are a good example, since some items are reported, like wages and stock sales, or interest earned. Other income isn't, like when you sell something you made, a side job mowing lawns, or baby sitting. But it's all supposed to be reported, and taxes paid. ( This is the stuff they put Capone away for, since he had more money than he reported and they could show it had to exist)

I know Mississippi charges 15% on tobacco and cigars. That includes the shipping charges too, since that considered part of the sale price. (It is when you buy i locally too, but you don't have it itemized).

STDog

Newbie Joined: Feb 23, 2008 Posts: 25

by Jay on Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:39 am

I haven't been whacked by tax bills in IL. Those Il smokers probably bought their smokes from shops that closed up, shops that lied about reporting orders, or the shops were fly-by-nite shops.

Don't scare me with "They tell you they don't report orders. But they're lying." Not all shops are like that. And MYOs ain't for me. I'd ratha smoke a Native American brand. Those menthols are similar to the taste of a MYO menthol without me wasting hours in my days in just making them.MYOs are not for every smoker, with all due respect. And I don't mean with the taste...I like the taste of that real tobacco. I don't like taking almost an hour to make a pack.

But I found a brand that tastes similar to MYO tobacco.....and the cigs are already made. MYO is time-consuming on making the cigs. And this brand is a Native brand, that means the brand isn't available offline.

I don't mean to steal someone's lines. But I love ya bro. But I just don't like the attitude on this board of "As long as you don't smoke cigars or MYOs, you will be criticized for what you smoke." Maybe it's me, but I don't even see actual premade smokers of the offline brands posting on here.

Well at least Native cigs are additive-free just like those cigs you make and smoke for yourself. I hate the real premade cig brands out there. They taste like sheet compared to my Senecas and your MYOs.

And BTW, I wouldn't buy a gun online anyway. Why go through all of those steps when I can buy a gun around the corner in the streets? Even if it means finding a dealer who will agree to pick up a delivery from an online merchant, that's still buying a gun online.

Jay

Enthusiastic Smoker Joined: Jun 10, 2003 Posts: 461 Location: Chicago

by Jay on Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:46 am

The Swiss sells cigs online (or DID sell cigs online)? Why would I buy from a shop like that? They sound like the type of shop that will report orders. Any site withthe "Swiss" word in it is suspicious.

Ands unfortunately for you, that Swiss shop sounds like they had few customers if they voluntarily quit sellin. More customers would've meant more business for the Swiss.

Jay

Enthusiastic Smoker Joined: Jun 10, 2003 Posts: 461 Location: Chicago

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