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by smokingmadmike
on Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:40 pm |
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| hello everyone it looks like i am going to have too pay that bill the state sent gov rell only forwarded my letter to the drs who in return said i have to pay i emailed www.smartsmoker.com about them sending my info out and they wont respond alls i can say is they are dirty little ratt finks and i no longer do buisness with them and advise any 1 else to stay away from them as well if they dont want a tax bill from their state this company was formally known as smokesignals take care |
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smokingmadmike
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by STDog
on Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:41 pm |
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Complain to the legislature. They wrote the law.
#1 rule, ignorance of the law is no excuse.
The onus is on you to be aware of the laws that apply to you. It is no one else's job to inform you.
I got a bill from the IRS last month for 2006 taxes. Not only did they want the difference, they had a penalty and interest on it for the past year.
Had you reported the purchase and paid the excise you would have not been charged late fees or other penalties.
Read the law again too. it's not just internet purchases. If you visit another state and come back with several cartons you bought there, you may owe taxes on them (exemption for under 200, not sure if that annual or per import). At least you can deduct the taxes already paid.
Rest assured that other produces with excise taxes when purchased locally will have similar taxes purchased elsewhere. Currently Mississippi doesn't allow mail/internet purchases of alcohol because they don't have a system for paying the taxes.
My understanding is (at least here in Miss) I'm liable for sales taxes on some out of state purchases.
You take the risk, same as I by not filing the returns and taxes that are due.
I don't like it. But it the law. Until we band together and get the laws changed we are stuck with them. That's what has saved most internet purchases from sales taxes, a vocal group that got the attention of congress. Legislatures are always looking for a new tax revenue.
FYI, I looked at the smartsmoker site. The age verification page says
Quote: We comply with all applicable laws governing the sale of tobacco products
They assume you know what those laws are.
Check the "Our Philosophy" page.
Quote: As a founding member of the Association of Responsible Cigarette Sellers, we adhere to a strict code of ethical business practices in compliance with all applicable federal and state laws.
The link to the association and their standards. Se page 4 of the "Model Business Practices"
It mentions the Jenkins Act, look it up too: Originally passed in 1949!
I also see on the Help. Privacy policy page:
Quote: You should be advised, however, that federal law requires us to report all sales and shipments of cigarettes to state taxing authority. You should contact the taxing authority within your state to determine your tax obligation on the use of these products within your state. LINKS TO STATES TAX DEPARTMENTS
So, you should have know that they would send the info, and that y0u were responsible for the taxes.
next you going to tell me you didn't know you are supposed to report income from a garage sale on you 1040. |
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STDog
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by Jay
on Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:05 am |
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STDog forgot the most important thang. smartsmoker reports orders. Why would a smoker buy cigs from a shop that specifically says they report orders? I know I wouldn't.
I buy my cartons online from a shop that actually guarantees to me over the past 6 months they don't report orders at all. And while smoke shops are supposed to report orders, not every smoke shop online actually does that. And this includes smoke shops that are Seneca-based shops who keep their mouths shut to Big Daddy about orders. |
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Jay
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by STDog
on Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:07 am |
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Jay wrote: smartsmoker reports orders. Why would a smoker buy cigs from a shop that specifically says they report orders? I know I wouldn't.
Doesn't mean you are not legally responsible for the tax. Just as you are responsible for reporting income from all sources not just those that report it for you.
It's not like this is a new law, it was passed in 1949.
I don't like it. And I don't buy cigarettes. I roll my own, and currently the tax here if 15% of the price, high but not as bad as the per cigarette taxes. (low here at 18/20 of a cent each, $0.009 each, or $0.18/pack)
Internet sales are treated the same as mail order, like catalogs (remember Sears and Penney's?).
They were exempted from collection state/local sales taxes due to the Constitutions restrictions on interstate commerce.
Jenkins changed that for cigarette taxes. Note however, it does not cover loose tobacco or cigars.
Also note, the retailer faces $1000 fine and/or 6 month in prison for failure to report, per instance (ie sale/shipment). Asking/expecting a business to take such a risk is asking a lot. |
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STDog
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by Jay
on Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:40 pm |
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I'm not gonna report orders til I see some fairness with internet purchasing. I can buy 5 million DVDs online for example. And based on your logic, those orders should be reported by me and the merchant on those DVDs since they're internet orders.
But do you think the state cares about me buying DVDs, and clothes online? Heck no. All they care about in regards to net purchases is collecting tobacco taxes IF they can.
And before you claim I'm wrong the states don't care about me buying DVDs and clothes (in regards to taxes) online, please explain why IL sent me back taxes for cig purchases off of that esmokes site from 1999-2004, but they neva sent me back taxes for the OTHA purchases I made online (like at amazon.com)???
Oh they were capable of going back in time to see my orders with esmokes' help. But based on your logic of buying anything online, IL, didn't care about researching any otha online orders I made. They got the computers to track this stuff down. They don't need a merchant's help. They can look up my credit card records for tracking down all net orders I made in 1999-2004. And not just cig purchases.
It's sad someone else thinks we're all supposed to obey every law in the book. When people win money in gambling, they supposed to report their winnings as part of tax filing. But do you think every gambler actually does that?
Neva mind the number of people who ignore smoking bans, which are laws too.
And likewise, what the F makes you think every smoker who buys cigs online voluntarily reports orders? I neva done that in my life, and I neva will. That would defeat the purposes of buying tobacco online in the first place. Which is to save money.
If I wanted to pay 80 bucks for one carton, I'd buy it offline instead. That would save me time in buying it online and then "voluntarily" report it to Springfield. LOL!!!
I'm not even gonna voluntarily report anythang else I buy online. But the states could care less about non-tobacco items I buy online. |
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Jay
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by Jay
on Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:05 pm |
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Yeah, the Jenkins Act is treated the same as a mail order because that's how someone of higher power views it. But if the Jenkins Act IS treated like a mail order:
1) How come cigarettes are the only items online that are actually taxed?
2) How come the states are not interested in collecting back taxes for anythang we buy online otha than cigs? The states still lose tax money when people buy DVDs and CDs online. Since you can get those at cheapa prices online.
3) That was a good Q. How come the govt's version of the Jenkins Act doesn't include loose tobacco purchases? Is it because they know a lot more smokers buy cigs than loose tobacco, and they can afford to lose taxes to smokers who buy MYO stuff online?
Please! It's bad enough in some states even if you buy cigs offline in anotha state, you eitha gotta pay back taxes on those cigs you bought in the different state, or the state police will cofiscate the cartons.
Which means a state like TN is even trying to stop smokers from buying cartons by driving over to KY to get smokes. And this is all supposed to be "normal" in terms of evading taxes?
In the case of online cig purchases, it would be normal to catch tax evaders if smokers were not the only ones beign forced to back taxes. Regardless of what you buy online, every net shopper should be required to pay back taxes for items they buy online. Othawise, we will neva see this type of fairness. The customer isn't gonna report that order from amazon.com. and amazon.com won't report the orders themselves. Even if amazon did report, the states could care les about back taxes on non-tobacco orders.
The states make their tax money off of smokers. Not people who buy CDs regularly.
In the case of TN's attempt to stop smokers from buying offline in otha states, that law can be worked around by having friends carry 2 cartons at a time into the Vol state (2 cartos is the max number of cartons you can buy in anotha state without paying back taxes).
I sincerely hope loose tobacco smokers won't have to even pay back taxes for loose tobacco. As long as making your own cigs neva outnumbers the numba of otha cig smokers, those MYO smokers should be fine. |
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Jay
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by STDog
on Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:58 pm |
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Sales taxes are not charged on mail orders shipped to other states based on a 1967 Supreme Court decision.
Most states have requirement that you report the purchases and pay the tax (calling it a use tax instead of sales tax, but the same rate).
The issue is who collects and/or reports what. The Jenkins act specifically requires the seller to report the sales, but the purchaser is required to remit the taxes.
The SCOTUS ruling prevents states from requiring that retailers report interstate sales (but the retail can if they wish), unless they have physical presence in the state. So it's the responsibility of the purchaser to pay any taxes due.
If the state finds a way to prove you purchased taxable item and didn't pay the tax, you will be responsible for the taxes and penalties.
http://www.revenue.state.il.us/Businesses/TaxInformation/Sales/rot.htm
FYI, you owe the state 6.5% on those DVDs. You report it on form ST-44 and mail them the form and check. Due by April 15 unless you owe more than $600, then you file monthly.
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=579&ChapAct=35%A0ILCS%A0105/&ChapterID=8&ChapterName=REVENUE&ActName=Use%2BTax%2BAct.
If the amount due is less than $300, and you don't file, it is a Class 4 felony.
More than $300 owed make it a Class 3 felony. You should look up the penalties for those so you know what the risks are.
Quote:
And before you claim I'm wrong the states don't care about me buying DVDs and clothes (in regards to taxes) online, please explain why IL sent me back taxes for cig purchases off of that esmokes site from 1999-2004, but they neva sent me back taxes for the OTHA purchases I made online (like at amazon.com)???
They do care. They just are not legally able to collect the info. Thank the supreme court for that.
The whys of this I don't know. I didn't write the Jenkins Act. I just know I have to abide by it. Maybe you can find a copy of the Congressional Record that show the debate on the Act. It might explain why only cigarettes and not loose tobacco or cigars. I still would owe taxes on loose tobacco and cigars, but the seller isn't required to report it.
Same with sales/use taxes. Do you risk getting caught (like the back taxes you owe on cigarettes) and having a big bill for several years of purchases and/or a felony conviction?
Lots of people don't report everything they are supposed to. I don't even agree with the taxes or that they should be collected. I'm just pointing out the leagle issues on this.
People are acting like its new and it not. Jenkins if nearly 60 years old. So any purchase since it passed can be taxed. It just took time for it to come into practice, since the internet companies weren't obeying the law requiring them to report the sales.
It was still your (and the original poster's) responsibility to pay the taxes all those years. Now that the state knows you made the purchase they know you didn't pay the taxes. o they sent you a bill.
No different than if you broker forgot to send the IRS your 1099, you didn't report it on Schedule D, and then the broker send the form. You are responsible for not reporting the info on time. That's what happened to me, I didn't report a stock option sale correctly, and it took them a year to figure it out. I also have 8 more years of incorrect reporting that I my have to straighten out. Luckily I'd owe less if I had reported it correctly.
BTW, the TN exemption at 2 cartons is aimed at smugglers/black market. 2 cartons is considered personal use. More is considered for resale. Drug laws are similar. More than a certain amount is considered intent to distribute.
Also similar to how you can make a few gallons of wine or beer each year for personal use, with out permits and such. More than the limit and it's intended for distribution/sale and treated differently.
That reminds me. cigarettes are the only thing the fed treat special. Try making you own rum, whiskey, or vodka. You can't. You have to have a permit, else you're a bootlegger. |
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STDog
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by Jay
on Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:16 pm |
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With all due respect, the Jenkins act applies to somethang you mentioned in your post. Smuggling thangs from out of state. But it doesn't apply to the net because the net neva existed back then. Nobody can prove I'm buying anythang online with the intent of smuggling/bootlegging.
I used to buy more than 2 cartons offline easily for my personal use. Who the F said that I can only buy 2 cartons at a time offline? If a carton was only 10 bucks offline, I'd buy 8-10 cartons and put them in my freezer. Stocking up at once makes betta sense than buying 2 at a time. Unless you want to spend 100s of bucks/month just for the cost of gasoline. You gotta drive in rder to buy cigs offline.
You're the one who's acting like the Act is new, not me. Until I see some FAIRNESS on how net sales are treated (which includes reporting back taxes on ALL orders), you can't tell me the Jenkins Act applies to net purchases.
And what does making my own alcoholic drinks (which I don't do) gotta do with my right to freely buy anythang online? Buyins stuff online is no different from buying it offline.
Pretty soon, the net will replace offline stores, and more people will buy thangs online. Especially with the cost of driving going up again thanks to high gas. I know I'd save time and money in buying anythang online. Do you think people give a crap about an Act that doesn't apply to online purchases? I heard of Acts that actually do apply to online purchases, but I don't know if they're set in stone.
And suppose someone makes a purchase online using a stolen card under my name. Am I responsible for paying taxes on those CD's I neva bought myself? I dunno what world you're living in if you think I should pay back taxes on those CD's I bought online. Based on your logic, MILLIONS of Americans nationwide are breaking the law by purchasing anythang online. That is some funny logic!
I hope you actually reported any order you made online for ANY product in your lifetime. Because based on your logic, you might end up in jail for not paying back taxes on those CDs. ILOL
I'm glad a Supreme Court prevents states from looking into purchases I made online otha than cigs. Because even though that CD purchases was made outta state based on an out-dated Jenkins Act, those were not illegal purchases I made. I could see them looking into it if I made purchases with a stolen card or a stolen checkbook.
Actually, based on your logic, ALL online stores are illegal, and they should ALL be closed down. But as I pointed out, millions of people shop online. And the numba of online shoppers will increase as the years go by.
I dunno how you're gonna find room in jails for millions of Americans who didn't pay their back taxes for anythang they bought online. But in the real world, I think robbers, murders, rapists, and those who attempt to buy thangs with stolen cards and cards they own but refuse to pay the card's bills....THOSE are the shoppers online who need to suffer the consequences.
But since buying anythang online is perfectly legal, you can keep on dreaming if you actually think someone is even gonna report ordering some FOOD (let alone CDs) online. Yes, you can even buy food online now (and I don't mean ordering pizza online but supermarket-like items). If I buy a package or cookies at an online merchant, should I let Springfield know I bought these cookies online so I can avoid going to jail and pay the back tax on that? HAHAHAHA
The net is the future of shopping period. Because with 4-5 bucks for a gallon of gas, people are gonna look into more ways on how to shop online without having to go out in a high-A car (in terms of its expenses).
Maybe there will be a time where all internet purchases will be required to be reported to the state by the merchants. The average consumer isn't gonna report himself/herself.
But til then, we'll just have to agree to disagree that IF I ever receive back tax bills again for cig purchases online (and I won't if I do my research properly), then that's targeting a group of smokers online while otha people are (based on your logic) evading taxes themselves by buying stuff online.....but those online buyers get a free pass! And that free pass for them is what pees me off.
Don't be giving me that Jenkins Act excuse. Times were a lot different back then compared to modern times. Buying thangs outta state were more common for bootleggers/smugglers in those days. While some buy thangs online with the intent of bootlegging, that's not the case with all online consumers. But if I apply that Jenkins Act online, that means all of these major merchants that give you the capability to shop online (like the Best Buy store) are illegal stores if they're not reporting orders to the states.
I'd laugh hard myself if someone bought a new car online, the person sees the new car, and then you hand him/her a form for reporting to his/her home state. That's the merchant's respnsiblity. And if the merchant doesn't do it, the merchant is suposedly running an illegal shop. Which means that American bought an illegal car from cars.com!! LOL!! |
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Jay
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by Jay
on Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:53 pm |
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Here's an example of an online merchant where you have the freedom to buy food items online instead of goign to the supermarket offline.
http://www.peapod.com/
Based on a nearly 60- year old Jenkins Act, and based on these otha tax laws that someone tries to apply hard to online purchases, it's a wonder why the US Government hasn't shut this online food store down. I'm confident Peapod and the stores' customers do not report orders to ANY authority. Does Peapod know about that dusty Jenkins Act? LOL
I know the idea of reporting anythang I bought online would prove a point I brought up in regards to the smoking bans. We live in a land of the NANNIES, and this is not a free country even when it comes to buying stuff online.
Why the heck are there online stores period if you guys actually do require all internet orders to be reported to you? That's the Q I'd ask to any state authority (and if I assumed the states actually collected info on online purchases that ain't cig-related)? Shouldn't these stores be deemed illegal?
The states make a lot more tax money off of smokers than someone who shops in supermarkets or shops for CDs and DVDs. That's one reason why (of the online shops that DO close down) they're successful in bringing down online tobacco shops. But they won't botha bringing down a food store like Peapod! |
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Jay
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by Jay
on Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:24 pm |
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The numba of holiday shoppers online has increased in recent years. Do these folks know they're making illegal purchases since they're not reporting those gifts that they buy online? HAHAHAHA
If I EVER hear of a person who bought holiday gifts online (and I don't mean tobacco-based gifts), and he/she got sent to jail for refusing to report those online orders, then more people will be asking the same Q I asked in this thread in regards to the existence of legal online stores.
But I know what I will do if I ever hear of an arrest like that. I WILL move outta America ASAP. This country's priorities ain't straight if they think catching someone who's "evading taxes" by buying items at Amazon.com. I think trying to make this country a safer place to live in is more important than the idea of trying to stop Americans from being online shoppers. But I guess this would be a greedy-A nation if state authoriites actually want to get their share of back taxes from a TV I bought online.
All of these taxes I ALREADY pay for is one reason why I AM a poor American while those rich-A authorities got 1000s of bucks in their pockets. And I ain't just talking about tobacco-related taxes.
Evading taxes by frauding income taxes is the only tax evasion that actually makes sense to me...as far as catching the tax evaders is concerned. But if I'm gonna be an American, I should have the right to buy anythang with the money I made MYSELF. Reporting that money by April 15 makes sense. But reporting every single order I make online is in the same class as me not filing income taxes?
If that's not a joke on reporting net purchases (and not just cig purchases), then this country is trying to steal every single buck I DO make. I gotta live too. Not just those rich folks who work in offices.
I'll bet a lotta money of the people who regularly shop online, 99 percent of them ain't aware they're supposed to report those orders. They would probably laugh at it.
I'll actually be glad to pay any back taxes on cigs (if it comes to that). Sure beats the hell outta going out in public and paying 80 bucks.
And based on how much the brand costs, it would still be cheapa than 80 bucks/carton even if I apply those "back taxes" to the carton. If the back tax for one Chicago carton was as high as 60 bucks, then that offline carton would be 140 bucks instead. But keep on dreaming if you think I'm gonna report them myself. That would defeat the purpose of buying cigs online in the first place.
It's not gonna happen while the shop is up and running, but if/when govt forces the shop to close down, THAT"S when I might have to worry about back taxes. If/when any online smoke shop closes down is anybody's guess. I already have an alternative shop in mind in case my current one DOES close down. Because from my research, when a shop closes down if it closes down at all, that's when the merchant will surrender to the govt and the authorities will break into the merchant's member database.
(The only way the govt would know of those previous orders is if the merchant saves all orders forever. But I can't claim the validity of some shops who claim to delete orders as soon as the order is delivered.....they need to know the numba of cartons bought at the shop. They don't care on how much I spent. Credit card info can't tell em how many cartons I bought. They can find that info at the actual merchant) |
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Jay
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