Homeowner's Association bans smoking at pool

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by msprof68 on Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:53 am

Maybe I just need to vent... but my HOA board of directors just banned smoking INSIDE the fence around the pool. They did this based on a few resident complaints. The President of the board says he and his wife are both allergic to smoke, but since they never use the pool, who cares???

The pool area is spacious, with plenty of grassy areas away from the pool deck. I can actually go outside the fence and smoker CLOSER to the pool than I would have had they designated a corner of the fenced-in area for smoking.

Does anyone have any suggestions for fighting this?

Better still, does anyone have any suggestions for getting even with these people and proving to them that it was a stupid decision that was inconsiderate of the smokers who pay HOA dues?

msprof68

Newbie Joined: Jun 28, 2007 Posts: 3 Location: Texas

by gilster on Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:24 am

This is a HOA? Home Owner's Association?

Do they ban BBQ's? Fire Pits?
Do they ban candles or incence in the area - citronella candles, etc.?
How close can you park a car to the pool? Do they ban vehicles that run on Diesel?

Smoke is Smoke...There's info on the net to 'prove' "harmful" smoke of all types to the infirmed.

These people are riding the Anti wave that's all over the world right now....for them....'It's just a nice thing to do'

If anyone heard Rush Limbaugh yesterday, he was quoting Juan Williams support of the immigration amnesty bill....Jaun W said, "It's just a nice thing to do"...Rush spent most of his program repeating it on many issues...Man Made Global Warming, Smoking Bans, etc.

gilster

Smoking Lobby Sponsor Joined: Apr 19, 2006 Posts: 1214

by linkup on Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:23 am

Grill lutefisk in the pool area! And Sell your home if you can't get a majority of smokers on the HOA Board.The Pool is only the beginning of your trouble with the HOA.

linkup

Smoking Lobby Sponsor Joined: Oct 01, 2005 Posts: 1201 Location: Anywhere but here

by Lynda F on Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:08 am

I would never buy a co-op or condo or house in a 'development' for just this reason. I can't see spending hundreds of thousand of dollars and still having to pay maintenance fees, homeowner association fees and be told what I can and cannot do on my property.

So you can smoke on the other side of the fence huh? I'd stand right there, on the other side of the fence, smoking just to show how fvcking stupid that rule is. Then again, that could backfire and have them banning it totally too.

Pvssies, the whole lot of them.

Lynda F

Enthusiastic Smoker Joined: May 02, 2007 Posts: 501 Location: Phoenix, AZ

by Jay on Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:14 pm

If someone is allergic to smoke, who gives a flying sheet?

I know if it wasn't for me living in a complex like that in hypothetical terms, where would that Pres be at without my money I give to him?

Residents complaining about people smoking outside on one side of a pool's fence ARE a bunch of wussies indeed. If I''m gonna pay to live anywhere, I'm gonna be smoking if a "new" smoking rule is put into place.

You could fight it by inviting some smoking friends over for a pool party. What would that SOB do if he saw a long line of smokers enjoying their cigs on the prohibited side of the fence? Dial 911? Puh-leez!

Jay

Enthusiastic Smoker Joined: Jun 10, 2003 Posts: 647 Location: Chicago

by msprof68 on Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:32 pm

Thanks to the four of you who responded... I was starting to feel like I was being unreasonable.

Now, here's the worst part that I didn't tell all of you... I AM ON THE BOARD.... and one of the other SMOKERS (who has a pool in his backyard and doesn't even use the stupid community pool) proposed this ban because he went down to the pool ONE DAY, talked to four people, and one of them complained that someone smoked near her and she's allergic, the smoker was rude, etc.

What a disloyal little d-bag... he doesn't DESERVE to be able to smoke. haha

But, I reached a compromise with the guy ... pointing out all the things that you all are saying. Not to mention the vengeance with which angry smokers might retaliate (violating the rule, throwing butts in the pool, etc). I had never entertained doing such things, given that I WAS a board member, but I was pointing out how I would take such a ban if I were not on the board.

He agreed with me, and said "Let's designate a corner of the yard for smokers...."

I had dental work done the day of the meeting, was high on Halcyon as a result and thus didn't attend the meeting because I trusted these weenies to do something logical. When they couldn't figure out "where" to put the smoking area, they all decided to put it outside the fence.

When I vented to the two friends I THOUGHT I had on the board, the one (President) fired back at me about how he and his wife are so allergic to smoke, hate it, etc... but they don't even use the pool!

This is the second time the board has really disappointed me, thank goodness my term is up in August. I have refused to run again as a result... I can't work with pvussies, as one gal here called 'em Smile

And, I agree with whoever said "I wouldn't pay..." to live in a neighborhood like this. I bought this house 8.5 years ago, and didn't even know it was an HOA neighborhood when I bought it. The salesperson did not disclose that. We found out at closing, and having no experience with these entities, I figured, "Oh cool, they'll have social events...."

WRONG. They'll make rules that are stupid, and not take care of things that really need taking care of. I will, in the future, avoid HOA 'hoods like the plague. They're evil.

"Little boxes on the hillside, little boxes made of ticky-tack, little boxes on the hillside, and they all look just the same...."

Thanks, Smokin' buds!

Brenda

msprof68

Newbie Joined: Jun 28, 2007 Posts: 3 Location: Texas

by linkup on Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:40 am

If you are leaving the Board in August and are replaced with an anti,watch out,you may not be able to smoke in your unit or anywhere on HOA grounds.Stay on the Board if you plan to stay in your home.

linkup

Smoking Lobby Sponsor Joined: Oct 01, 2005 Posts: 1201 Location: Anywhere but here

by gilster on Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:56 am

I'll Echo what Linkup wrote:
Stay on the board, and try to recruit more Libertarian-minded homeowners to join too...

You will be run by mob-mentality otherwise.

Quote:

"Little boxes on the hillside, little boxes made of ticky-tack, little boxes on the hillside, and they all look just the same...."

Good quote....and people want others to be just like them too, conformity is what is driving these bans - all of them, not just smoking.

HOA's are the 'utopian' microcosym that Antis of all stripes want.
To do onto their neighbors what they want their neighbors to do.

gilster

Smoking Lobby Sponsor Joined: Apr 19, 2006 Posts: 1214

by msprof68 on Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:52 pm

These are not condo's or apartments... they are individual homes on separate lots. I'll dare any of them to try to ban smoking IN our homes. The Texas courts won't like that at all.

You're right, i SHOULD stay on the board and fight. But, I can't tolerate weenies, as these guys are. They'll spend days and days arguing over something petty, and will totally ignore major problems.

I just hope I can sell soon and get the hell out of here. I'll maybe form a smoker's-only colony. Smile

Brenda

msprof68

Newbie Joined: Jun 28, 2007 Posts: 3 Location: Texas

by linkup on Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:44 am

http://www.communityassociations.net/cacondoguru/archives/2007/03/may_an_associat_1.html

California Condo & HOA Law
Beth Grimm
« May The Association Control The Size of Pets - Namely Dogs? | Main | What Happens If Owners Do Not Sign The Ballot Envelopes? »

March 10, 2007
May an Association Ban Smoking in a Person's Home?
Smoking has been proven hazardous to the health of the smoker. Second hand smoke has been proven hazardous to the health of those forced to inhale it. Questions that often arise these days in homeowner associations are: (1) May we ban smoking in the common areas? and/or (2) May we ban smoking in the units?

The answer is yes, in some localities under some conditions. This is California. One would think the seminal cases might happen here. But they have not, at least not to the best of my knowledge. However, they have happened.

In Boston, a jury found that heavy smoking were grounds for eviction of the tenants. In 2005, when this judgment came down, the news story by Ralph Ranalli and Jonathan Saltzman, of the Boston Globe reported:

"In a case that tobacco law specialists say is one of the first of its kind in the nation, a Boston Housing Court jury ruled that a South Boston couple could be evicted from their rented water-view loft for heavy smoking, even though smoking was allowed in their lease. The landlord who rented the Sleeper Street unit to Erin Carey and Ted Baar ordered them out within a week last November, after neighbors complained of the smoke odors filtering into their apartments.
Carey and Baar, who each smoke about a pack a day and run an information technology sales business out of the one-bedroom unit, fought the eviction, arguing in court that the converted warehouse's shoddy construction and aging ventilation system were to blame for the wayward odors.

Last Friday, a jury ruled in favor of the landlord and the eviction. Even though the landlord could have written a nonsmoking clause into the lease and didn't, the jury found that the couple's heavy smoking violated a more general clause banning ''any nuisance; any offensive noise, odor or fumes; or any hazard to health.' Although the verdict is not binding on other courts, tobacco law specialists said the decision is one of the nation's first to declare smoking a nuisance serious enough to become grounds for eviction."

In November of 2006, in Golden, Colorado, "The Denver Channel.com" reported: "A judge has upheld a homeowners association's order barring a couple from smoking in the town house they own.

Colleen and Rodger Sauve, both smokers, filed a lawsuit in March after their condominium association amended its bylaws last December to prohibit smoking.

'We argued that the HOA was not being reasonable in restricting smoking in our own unit, nowhere on the premises, not in the parking lot or on our patio,' Colleen Sauve said.

The Heritage Hills #1 Condominium Owners Association was responding to complaints from the Sauves' neighbors who said cigarette smoke was seeping into their units, representing a nuisance to others in the building.

In a Nov. 7 ruling, Jefferson County District Judge Lily Oeffler ruled the association can keep the couple from smoking in their own home.

Oeffler stated "smoke and/or smoke smell" is not contained to one area and that smoke smell 'constitutes a nuisance.' She noted that under condo declarations, nuisances are not allowed.

The couple now has to light up on the street in front of their condominium building."

This activity across the country, although not binding in any court in California, indicates a possible trend. And many, many, many Californians are sensitive to smoke. It was not that long ago that a bill was introduced in Sacramento that would have provided that allowing smoke to waft through walls could be actionable in the courts. The bill did not survive. But the idea of preventing smokers from being allowed to cause a nuisance that adversely affects others has not.

Posted by Beth Grimm at March 10, 2007 10:05 PM

linkup

Smoking Lobby Sponsor Joined: Oct 01, 2005 Posts: 1201 Location: Anywhere but here

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