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by seesee
on Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:04 pm |
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nater wrote: Okay, so that explains the news thing.
Still curious about Bettie...
Eric, not sure how to respond to your post. (Are you expecting me too?) I didn't respond earlier because I didn't think I had anything more to add.
It would be nice for smokers and antis to come to some sort of resolution.
I was once in a restaurant that was shaped like a T. The entrance was at the bottom the T. The kitchen was in the back, dead center. There was no smoking in the front area or left rear, but the right rear was smoking. There were windows from the kitchen that faced the front and right wing, to set food out for the smoke-free area and seperately for the smoking area.
The smoking area was properly ventilated to the roof, with fresh air drawn in near the front door and left wing. This meant that all persons could enter, eat, pay, use the bathroom in the left wing, etc without going into the smoking area, AND, most importantly, the smoke absolutely, positively, did not enter the non-smoking sections.
This whole layout seemed reasonable to me. It seems like such a setup could please everyone, provided that the employees don't mind (I'm sure you can find a smoking waiter for that section).
Why can't such a compromise be reached? Is it too hard to enforce by health inspectors?
I don't see what a smoker or non-smoker could complain about in this type of layout, but no one seems to want to compromise.
Nate
The problem is that the antis do NOT want any type of compromise. They want it all their way, or no way. They do not care about trying to reach a compromise in which everyone can be accommodated. They wanted nonsmoking sections...they got it. They wanted smoking gone from the airlines...they got it. Smokers and business owners have been gracious in trying to accommodate them in the past and they always got what they wanted...but that was not good enough. Today they seek to eliminate smoking and smokers from every facet of life. They seek to eliminate freedom of choice and property rights. They can't respect the fact that bars and restaurants are private property, owned by the business owner, not them, let alone realize that they have the choice not to enter the property, or open up their own business to compete.
I personally don't think any changes to the law were needed because I realize that these establishments are private property and I do not have the right to demand who they can or can not accommodate. I also appreciate and respect that I am given the choice to enter, or not to enter an establishment. However, at this point, I would be open to some sort of compromise. If the antis absolutely felt that they needed some sort of legislation, they should have fought for better ventilation. With their current crusade they've gone and ruined everything and have pitted everyone against each other.
The people on this site continue to argue against these antis because they are fighting for what it right. If you think the antis need to be more open to compromise then you need to speak out and let them know that. |
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seesee
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by seesee
on Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:13 pm |
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Torquemeda wrote: Personally, I think these pricks want the same thing MADD has and that's to be federally funded. A lot of them are locally funded and RWJF has just proposed more money in the fight against alcohol and obesity so you, since you seem a little brighter than HAL, may be joining all of us a lot quicker than you think.
I agree...they just keep pushing for more and more. Once they shove their ideas down everyone's throats, they just push for more and more. What MADD wants is not to make alcohol illegal (which has already failed miserably in the past) but to make access to it as limited as they can and to make it as hard as possible to go have a drink at a bar. Their philosophy is...You can drink, it's not illegal, but we're going to make it damn hard for you.
The anti tobacco organizations want the same thing for tobacco and use MADD's tactics. They will just keep pushing for more if they are not stopped. Enough is never enough for them. |
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seesee
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by nater
on Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:25 pm |
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I really believe that the overwhelming public support for smoking bans these days is due to poor seperation of smoking and non-smoking sections in bars and restaurants. The table next to the smoking section might as well be in the smoking section.
If the attitudes of smokers is "non-smokers stay home" then the ban will be inevitable. If the smokers continue to declare their right to smoke anywhere and everywhere, and throw cigarette butts and ashes out the car window, then yes, the laws will get tougher.
But, on the flip side, if you ban smoking altogether, then my "T" shaped restaurant now has a bunch of smokers huddled around the front entrance, propping the door for heat, and the non-smokers must hold their breath to get through the door. (How is this an improvement for the non-smokers)?
Nate |
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nater
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by Colin
on Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:09 pm |
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But, on the flip side, if you ban smoking altogether, then my "T" shaped restaurant now has a bunch of smokers huddled around the front entrance, propping the door for heat, and the non-smokers must hold their breath to get through the door. (How is this an improvement for the non-smokers)?----Nate
This is exactly what is happening here in Scotland. The ban forces people outside and non smokers are now complaining that they have to get past the smokers at the door. If the pub has a smokers area outside in the beer garden, and the weather is nice, non & anti smokers now want the smokers to vacate the seats for them, and they complain of the smoke in the beer garden.
We just cant win any space for ourselves, even when a ban is enacted.
The anti smokers want it all. |
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Colin
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Joined: Jul 03, 2006
Posts: 158
Location: Banff, Scotland
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by JEEP_GOD
on Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:36 pm |
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| You got it, Colin. There have been seperate sections for smokers and non-smokers for years now. Then, smokers were threw out of about everywhere you could think of, except certain restaraunts and bars. There are many more non-smoking restaraunts than there are ones that allow it. Many places have invested money in ventilation systems, to no avail. All I can ask is "what compromise"? There aren't being any offered. |
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JEEP_GOD
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by JEEP_GOD
on Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:38 pm |
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You got it, Colin. There have been seperate sections for smokers and non-smokers for years now. Then, smokers were threw out of about everywhere you could think of, except certain restaraunts and bars.
There are many more non-smoking restaraunts than there are ones that allow it. Many places have invested money in ventilation systems, to no avail. All I can ask is "what compromise"? They aren't being offered.
All they're offering are bans, and forcing their will on others. |
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JEEP_GOD
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by runamok
on Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:06 pm |
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HAL9000 wrote: This past Thursday evening I had a drink at the bar of Charley's Crab restaurant in Fort Lauderdale. They make a delicious Kir. Because I was the designated driver, I would have had another, but I limit myself to just one under those circumstances.
HAL9000 wrote: ...I simply don't drive when drinking.
One of those statements is a [freakin]' lie.
Here's yer chance to come clean. Which one made yer nose grow? |
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runamok
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by naptownKrabbi
on Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:36 pm |
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Quote: news module is broken
Bill, I think the chat module is broken too...
I would love the chance to have a real-time smoke and drink with these fine folks...and would love to have the chance to use the kick/knucklehead command with the nazi's even though, since it requires more time to copy and paste and spell-check, I doubt they'd be up for it...
thanks... |
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naptownKrabbi
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Joined: Apr 01, 2005
Posts: 356
Location: Pennsylvania
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