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by Roland
on Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:52 pm |
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I stuff my own cigs, so I haven't been effected by this, but I fear that they will be going after the MYO market next and have read this thread with interest. From what I have gleaned, I will give you my opinion on this situation. Let me restate that this is just my opinion, but I think it makes some sense.
You can legally import 1 or 2 cartons of cigs, duty free, for personal use. This has been eating away at the taxes Big Brother gets from domestic sales, but it is legal and the government has been trying to figure out a way around the law to put a stop to it. Last year, someone finally had the bright idea to seize these legal importations on the premise that some cigarette bootlegger has been having a large number of shills order cigs cheap that they can resell them for a hefty profit. (This type of scam is not that farfetched, meth cooks do it to obtain ingredients.)
The government's scam, on the other hand, will effectively end the legal importation of duty free cigarettes because of two things. First, the fear of legal ramifications if you attempt to contest the seizure, and second, the, precieved, amount of inconvenience required to reclaim your cigs, a small dollar item. My guess is that if someone went to claim their cigarettes, they'd be asked to sign a form declaring that they are for personal use and they would turn them over to you or let you pick them up later.
Another thing in the government's favor, is that, apparently, you have been ordering them at intervals, so that you do not violate the one or two carton possession rule. Now they have seized several shipments, so if you do claim them, they will only give you the maxium number you may have in your possession and be forced the forfeit the rest.
As I said, this is only a hypothesis, but it sounds like our government at work. Another thing to be concerned about, is the states are going after YS and others to get records of their past transactions so that they may tax us on our previous purchases. Someone in this thread stated that would not happen because they were legally purchased and not subject to taxation, not true. In most states, you are obligated to pay taxes on nearly everything you purchase, regardless of where or how they were purchased. The states rarely pursue these taxes because of the monumental effort it would take to do so. Unfortunately, tobacco is on the fast track to being the star object of hate of the neo-prohibitionists and everyone that doesn't smoke seems to be jumping on the band wagon.
Now that the ATF has declared that 'illicit' tobacco is funding terrorists, the patriot act is in play. This means that they are no longer required to get a court order to seize any and all records they need to find out what we are ordering and what we have ordered in the past. Someone mentioned that it doesn't seem like a free country anymore. Sure it is, the government is free to do whatever they want. With Bush's "mandate", the next four years are lible to make the HUAC hearings and McCarthy red scare look like vacation at Disneyland.
Oops, I think I started ranting a little there. Sorry. 
Well, that's enough for now,
Roland
For more info on MYO/SYO goto: http://syo.dalrun.com |
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Roland
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Joined: Mar 21, 2005
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by guh70
on Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:37 pm |
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I got the letter the other day and confused as heck what I'm supposed to do. The letter mentions To Contest the Forfeiture it says some form can be used to file a Claim of Ownership with a Power of Attorney form if I retain an attny. It says if u choose file CoO u "may be entitled to request immediate release of the seized property pending the disposition of your claim .. See 18 U.S.C. 983(f). Provided, however, that property will not be released if it is (a) contraband, currency, other monetary instrument, or electronic funds unless such currency, other monetary instrument, or electronic funds constitute the assets of a legitimate business that has been seized; (b) to be used as evidence of a violation of law; (c) by reason of design or other characteristic Particularly suited for use in illegal activities; or, (d) likely to be used to commit additional criminal acts if released." Geez
.. then option 2 for Petition for Remission or Mitigation of Forfeiture .. 28 C.F.R. Part 9 .. and the "Petition must also state the facts and circumstances that you believe justify remission or mitigation of the forfeiture. If you are a lien holder in the subject property, you must also complete Net Equity Worksheet, which is available from ATF upon request." My letter at the end has a "contact Asset Forfeiture and Seized Property Branch at (202) 927-0100" signed by a "Geneva M. Dunaway, SAC, Asset Forfeiture and Seized Property Branch."
Just my humor but the name of the person reminds me of Geneva Convention and we all know how that turned out. Also, naturally, I don't see any Petition for Remission or Mitigation of Forfeiture included here in this stuff I got ... got a Seized Asset Claim form and the Power of Attorney form. Anyone know how to find the regulations governing the form and content of a Peititon for Remission or Mitigation of Forfeiture as set forth at 28 C.F.R. Part 9?
So, in looking at this letter, no clue what to do yet and if I do forfeit the smokes, does this mean my credit card company will then have ammunition to recharge me for the smokes .. and does this mean that the gov bill me for taxes on the smokes they've stolen from me? Also, I had ordered more smokes from Yesmoke, and this letter doesn't list all I'd ordered from Yesmoke, so ya think I'll get another FedEx letter to have to sign for soon? Or do you think they're happy enough with bugging me with one?
I'm on disability income here, so if I don't send anything in, what happens to me? I can't afford an attorney, that's for sure. What has others been doing to deal with responding to this letter? Robin |
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guh70
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by Taft
on Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:48 pm |
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| For those of you who have received 'the letter', why not just simply respond by replying with a letter which states: 'I consent to the unmitigated forfeiture of the property described in [the letter]'. They will just destroy your smokes. Is it not just that simple? |
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Taft
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by ladybond
on Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:50 pm |
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The last sentence of the letter that I received says:
If you have any questions regarding this matter, you may contact Asset Forfeiture and Seized Property Branch at (202) 927-0100 before 3/28/2005.
My question is , has anyone called that number to find out exactly what this letter means. I'm afraid to call. I had nightmares all last night.
My letter is signed by Geneva Dunaway also. |
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ladybond
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by Guest
on Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:45 pm |
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| Ok. I called Asset Forfeiture and Seized Property Branch at (202) 927-0100 . Spoke to "Sandy Taylor". She advised "the letter" was sent only to inform us that we will not be getting our smokes. If you do nothing, nothing else will happen. The letter gives the option of claiming your property or the monetary value only if you want. So relax. |
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by ladybond
on Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:07 pm |
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| Ohhhhhhhhhhh, GUEST. I Luv You & everybody else here should too. Thank you, thank you, thank you sooooooooooooo much for making that call. I'm never going to order cigarettes online again. I joined the RYO gang! Thank you again for being braver than anybody else here! Whew! Yesterday was my deadline to answer the letter. This has been the looooooooongest month of my life. Now I can get on with it. |
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ladybond
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by redliner1989
on Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:15 pm |
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My question:
Why didn't they say that in the letters?
I've been reading about y'all getting those letters.
MYO..MYO..MYO..MYO... |
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redliner1989
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by ladybond
on Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:33 pm |
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| I agree with you Redliner. Why couldn't they just say it in plain english. We could have avoided all of the nerve racking!!! Nooooooooo, they had to make i sound threatening to keep us all down & under the threat of government. Politics at it's prime. Strange that we are raised to believe government was formed to protect the citizens! That certainly turned out to be a farse! No matter what "Party" you are affiliated with. Even Congressmen & Senators get into it for themselves. Their last thought is the citizens. It's one giant "GRAFT" pot for them. |
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ladybond
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by Karen0302
on Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:57 am |
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ladybond,
It is a historical fact that all governments govern by fear. Fear of imprisonment, fear of loss, fear of seizure, etc. The larger a government gets, the more it has to rely on the use of fear.
The US took a bit longer to reach this point than some other governments, but once the ability to seek redress in the courts was removed from most citizens (and it HAS been removed for all intents and purposes), government was pretty much free to do as it wished.
For example, the current topic of the cigarette seizures at JFK. After I got the letter I did some research and found a legal definition for "contraband cigartettes". In it, you must bring in more than 60,000 cigarettes for them to be considered contraband. And then of course, there is the law that allows you to bring in 1 kilo of tobacco duty free.
I finally gave up on the research because each reference I found contradicted another. The whole legal structure is incredibly confused.
As for Congressmen and Senators not thinking about the "citizens" ... how can they. They don't live in the same world that we do. They live in the artificial reality of Washington, which really no connection to the real world any longer.
I could go on and on, but I'll get off my soapbox now and stop venting. As for myself, well, I'm moving into the MYO world. After reading the MYO topic here and doing some research I can't believe it took me this long to make the move!!!
Karen |
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Karen0302
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by guest123
on Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:05 am |
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Hello All,
I have received the same letter. I called the number that is on that letter. The person there said - just disregard the letter. Yes Smoke the company is in vilotation and not the consumer.
So be at peace.
Have a good one you all.
AJ
RESOULTION OF THE LETTER - GOOD NEWS |
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guest123
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