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by C716
on Thu Nov 06, 2003 9:04 pm |
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More than a few times, myself and a few of you guys have disagreed about smoking being a right. I said there is no such thing and of course, you folks disagree.
I will conceed the point that you most likely dont mean that our forefathers had written that smoking Tabocco is a God-Given right. I assume ( and pleasae correct me if I am wrong) you mean that it ( smoking) is a legal substance and should NOT be banned from public use.
And guys I will o NOT agree with you all probaby say this over and over.............. Its NOT the end of the world that I disagree, its not stupid or ridiculous or impossible to believe that a LOT of people feel the same way.
In the grand scheme of things, the world and our country change.
I remember when i was a child, my mother would give me money to run to the store to buy her cigarrettes. I was MAYBE 10 years old and it was OK. It wasnt just ONE store or owners that I knew......they just didnt care back then....NOW, its different. and I am glad that today, a 10 year old cant legally ( I said Legally) buy smokes.
Both My Mother & Father smoked for a LONG time. My mother quit before My Dad and is still with us. My Father struggled for years to quit smoking. He told me HUNDREDS of times that he wished he would have never started. He simply could NOT break the addiction of cigarrettes. The only thing that made my father stop smoking was Emphzeyma. Yes it was the direct result of smoking. I have never brought this up before because besies it being irrelevent for the topic we were discussing. BUT, While you folks argue your side of the discussion about your "right" to smoke. I had a "right" NOT to see the last two years of my fathers life dwindle into a wheezing gasp for the next breath. I had to cal the ambulance 9 times his last year. IT was Hell. He had a "right" NOT to feel the way he felt................... BUT, cigarrettes TOOK his rights & his life away. The point here is this............ I can, EVEN after loosing my dad to smoking , I dont hate people for smoking. I dont believe it should be OUTRIGHT Banned. I dont believe in overtaxing ciggs or running RJ reynolds out of bussines.
On the flipside, smoking should not be allowed in restaurants or places the public frequents. Children should NOT ba able to purchase or smoke ciggs.
Contrary to popular beliefe, I am NOT a Nazi, or an antismoking zelot, I am a guy who is darn realistic about what MOST non-smoking people want. I dont want to have my scrabbled eggs with Nicotine, I dont want to see the rodsides of my beautiful sunshine state littered with cigarrtte butts ( the MOST abused piece of litter out there, I CAN provide fatcs).
Hell , I dont even want to argue about it, but I also know, people are resistant to change, and will think its the end of the worls if something they like is changed.
I am going to stop here, I could go on, however, most folks wont read and OVER wordy documnet. Thanks for the time |
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C716
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Joined: Sep 22, 2003
Posts: 83
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by Jay
on Fri Nov 07, 2003 3:04 am |
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If the flip-side point is kids shouldn't be allowed to have cigs and smoking should be banned in restaurants, I don't know how the experience of your father's death would EXACTLY connect with either. Kids should wait until they're adults to start...that's obvious, since they can live longer by waiting at an older age to start. When compared to them actually starting as even teens. I hear there are more college students starting to smoke in modern times, since those guys waited until they were old enough to buy cigs before becoming smokers.
However, if a teen is determined to start smoking, that teen will get cigs some kind of way, and even the smoking-caused death of a loved one won't stop them. Especially if that "loved one" died from emphysema at say 78. 78 is a normal age for even non-smokers to die at (including non-smokers who never lived with smokers). I could see that loved one dying from smoking at 48 being a different story. 48 isn't a normal death age for anyone.
While I tend to agree that kids shouldn't be allowed to smoke cigs, how are you going to stop the parents giving cigs to their kids behind closed doors? Good luck taking cigs away from teens in the "wrong crowd." I know one thing for sure. Just because you don't see kids smoking in public doesn't necessarily mean they're actual non-smokers. If a teen can get fined for even possessing cigs in public, that teen can work around that rule by smoking in the friendly confines of his/her home, even if it means sneaking smokes behind the parents' backs. Likewise, parents can work around that under-18 rule. It's illegal for a 10 year old to buy cigs, and while it's illegal for adults to buy cigs for kids, there are actual adults who likely do wait until they get back home and close the door before giving cigs to their kids. Of course, non-smoking parents are the only parents who would never buy cigs for any minor.
I don't know how no smoking in restaurants can prolong anyone's life (smokers included). Especially since the majority of us actually inhale non-cigarette smoke outside from vehicles. The only way public lives can come close to lasting longer is by making cigarettes illegal (and fine anyone possessing cigs period). That's the best connection I can get from the death of a father from his smoking and no smoking in restaurants.
I'm sorry on your father's death, and it's not a surprise to see someone use the death of a loved one from smoking as a reason for being "con-smoker." And "Just because it happened to him doesn't mean it will happen to me!" would be an excuse to you, but it isn't to me.
If I smoked a lot plus have other lifestyle factors in my life (like do I drink a lot? Do I have an unhealthy food diet? Do I use drugs? etc), then my chances of actually dying from smoking would increase dramatically. If it was true that all smokers died from a smoking-related reason, then people would be getting problems emphysema (the smoking-related health problem that took your dad's life) as early as at 25, assuming the person started smoking at 15. Or basically speaking, catch the breathing problem within only 10 years of smoking.
It also doesn't help when your father smoked a lot during the days of non-filtered cigarettes....which are a lot more dangerous to one's health than filtered cigarettes. I probably WOULD get emphysema from smoking 1-2 packs per day of nonfiltered cigs for 25-30 years. |
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Jay
Enthusiastic Smoker
Joined: Jun 10, 2003
Posts: 647
Location: Chicago
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by C716
on Fri Nov 07, 2003 5:55 am |
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I REALLY did refrain from throwing the death of my father in here. Why?? Because I am very sure you guys as adults have heard similar stories or know the you deal about sucking smoke in your lungs is NOT what the body is intended to do. Also, the "Connection" that you dont see is simply to give perspective as to why there ARE folks like me.As far as college folks smoking, this year took a dip in the number of college age folks STARTING to smoke.
Teens wil do a LOT of things they should not do. You are VERY right about that.
I will say this, My father DID die at a normal age for people to pass. He simply did NOT die a "normal" way, He suffereda LOT, and while I know I will possibly hear that having emphysema COULD be considered a normal way to die, I would have to counter with Saying , that is becomming normal because SOMETHING is making it (emphysema) happen more and more that it appears a lot more than Normal.
If a Parent decides he/she wants to give thier child ciggs and that it is neccesaary, you are very right, who am I to stop them. People make stupid choices every day. While I was Moonlighting in Texas ( Bartending ), a Woman used to bring her 8 year old in and ask that we serve him alcohol. Now , believe it or not, the Texas alcohol & Tobacco Board deemed it LEGAL for a Parent to serve thier child liqour, IF they wanted it ( this may have changed since the early 90's, and I have pulled the statute before)), and she knew the law. While she had the right to request it, the law also gave the server the right to refuse if he or she felt morally against serveing a child....... long story, but again, people make some damned strange choices when it comes to children,, BUT, realistically, you can NOT police the world, you just do the best you can do.
No smoking in restaurants is simply a step in a "cleaner" direction, thats all. Making hydrogen or electric powered cars is another................ Thats why I stronly believe in THEM.. NOT just for healths sake either, but politically ( worldwide)... Of course, , that debate is a different board all together.
I TOTALLY agree with you on lifestyle factoring in on your longevity..YUP,, agree wholeheartedly. BUT ( on the flipside again, I personally dont WANT to be a health police.. If someone WANTS to eat half a dozen doughnuts at breakfast, Do it........... just dont make me eat some with you........... thats MY small analogy this morning. hehehee
And yes Jay, My dad DID in fact smoke non-filtered................ But " In the day" , it was the thing to do.
Again, I did NOT bring up my Dads passing to do anything BUT, reenforce why I have MY views and am equally as passionate as you guys about them. I have enough common sense to know,, nor want to STOP folks from smoking, Just dont make me smoke too. |
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C716
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Joined: Sep 22, 2003
Posts: 83
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